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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.BZ
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You are truly a force,
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and an incredibly charming one
at that.
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He knows exactly
how to dazzle and entertain.
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At the time,
I was just doing my job.
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I wasn't thinking about
anything but filling the order,
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doing what was required of me.
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I never once thought about
the legacy of the future,
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just the present.
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Thank you all.
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So, Bob,
you design all these
gorgeous gowns and sketches
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for characters, costumes.
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So, what were you
like as a little boy?
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- Were you, like, fantasizing?
- I was the strangest child
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you've ever met.
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I just-- I never played
with the other kids.
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I just stayed in my bedroom
and drew pictures of stars.
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- You mean people?
- People, yeah.
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Yeah. And little stage sets
on my dresser drawers.
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And I turned off the lights...
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Did you see pineapples
when you were in Hawaii?
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- No.
- You must've.
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Well, this isn't going
to be a very good owl.
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I can tell.
I'll have to do my best.
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Here you go.
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Okay, I'm going to put
a little bow in her hair,
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because it's more like a hat
when there's a bow in it.
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And that's kind of
holding them all together.
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Okay, now I'm doing
another one there.
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See, when you're
a costume designer,
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you have to think
of how it's going to be--
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How it sticks to their head
and works.
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Do you ever make hats
out of paper sometimes?
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Crowns and hats? It's fun to do.
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There she goes.
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- How's that?
- It is so fun.
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- It's fun, huh?
- Mm-hm.
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Yeah.
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Well, they gave me that
when I was there.
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This is like-- Because
I've been getting awards,
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they decided to give me an award
for Most Creative Grandpa.
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Well, the other one was
an award for Best Drawer,
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by Kira, the little one.
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Well, that's all I did,
so I was usually better
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than anybody else in my class.
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But I wasn't that great.
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I was-- You know,
when you're 6 years old...
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But how'd
you learn it?
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You just draw every day,
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because that's all
you wanted to do.
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I didn't want to play, you know,
baseball or anything.
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That was too boring.
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And then at school, everybody--
You know, a lot of kids
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had brothers and played baseball
and football and all that stuff.
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And boy, did I hate that.
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You know, I just didn't like it.
I didn't know how to do it.
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And I couldn't hit the damn ball
with that bat, you know.
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And then they'd always
put me as far out
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in the field as possible.
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And then if a ball did come,
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I was usually daydreaming
about something.
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Oh, just anything pretty.
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I don't know.
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♪ If I could turn back time ♪
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♪ If I could find a way ♪
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Well, when I got famous
about 27 years ago,
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I wanted to check off my list
of people I needed to contact.
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And at the top of that list
was Bob Mackie.
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All rise for Bob Mackie.
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You know, all the real stars,
all the biggest stars,
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wore Bob Mackie.
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It was because it actually made
them look like the superstar
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that they were.
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♪ Have you ever fed a lover
With just your hands? ♪
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♪ Close your eyes and trust it
Just trust it ♪
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♪ Have you ever thrown
A fistful of glitter
In the air ♪
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♪ Have you ever looked fear
In the face and said ♪
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♪ I just don't care ♪
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When you're going to meet
Bob Mackie for the first time
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and you think about all these
drawings and years and years
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and years of Hollywood creation,
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you think that you're going to
be in the room
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with this fabulous,
arrogant queen.
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And he's just the nicest,
most soft spoken...
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I call it quiet power,
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because people that are still
trying to find their power
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and exercise their power
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are usually loud
and boisterous and passionate.
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But someone like that
that's been around for so long,
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he's just like, "No,
that's not going to work.
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Let's try something else." Or,
"No, that could be nice."
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We do argue a lot.
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We don't always see eye to eye,
but at the end of the day,
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what he puts me in
makes me feel really good.
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♪ It's only half past
The point of oblivion ♪
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♪ The hourglass on the table ♪
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♪ The walk before the run ♪
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♪ The breath before the kiss ♪
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♪ And the fear
Before the flames ♪
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♪ Have you ever
Felt this way and... ♪
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The process
with Bob and Joe,
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you know, you go to
this fantastic old building
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and there's all
these old costumes,
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and they're all over the wall,
and there's fabric everywhere.
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And they start by getting you
completely naked,
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And they take every
measurement of every body part.
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It's fun. We laugh.
I've been known to cry.
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You have to stand up
on this mini stage
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with a spotlight on you
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because he wants to know
exactly how it's going to look.
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♪ Have you ever
Wished for an endless night ♪
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♪ Lassoed the moon
And the stars ♪
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♪ And pulled that rope tight ♪
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♪ Have you ever held your breath
And asked yourself ♪
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♪ Will it ever get... ♪
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If you look at just
the "Glitter in the Air" outfit
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that he made for me...
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I mean, who in their right mind
would want to design bandages
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for someone to wear,
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and think that they could
make that look
graceful and beautiful?
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But it is one of the most,
I think, iconic outfits,
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if not the most iconic outfit
of my career,
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that glitter outfit.
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It's very rare that
fashion designers
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are designing specifically
for a performer.
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Right? People design collections
for runway or for the consumer.
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And when you're working
on performance clothing,
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it's about
a very specific thing.
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It's about real character study.
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It's about understanding
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what that person's
fantasies are,
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what they want to project
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and who they want to be
in the future,
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and what do they need to achieve
in that moment.
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It seems just all
fabulous in the end,
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but you're really
trying to pick up
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on somebody's essence.
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You know, that invisible thing
that's going to come out
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and create that connection
of magic
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with an audience, and make
millions of people dream.
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Somebody told me this
years ago,
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that every superhero
has a costume.
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And clothes help you become
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whatever superhero
you want to be.
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And it's not that you're hiding
inside of the clothes, or...
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But there is a certain
confidence,
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and there is a certain thing
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that happens when you
put the right girl
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in the right dress.
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So the whole business
of dressing a celebrity
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is more cerebral
and more psychological
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than anything else.
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♪ We were good ♪
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♪ We were gold ♪
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♪ Kind of dream
That can't be sold ♪
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♪ Ooh, we were right
Till we weren't ♪
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♪ Built a home
Then watched it burn ♪
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One of the best parts of wearing
Bob Mackie on stage
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is that sometimes
the audience is just as excited
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to see a Bob Mackie in person
as they are to see you.
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♪ Oh, I can buy myself flowers ♪
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♪ Write my name in the sand ♪
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Why are you acting
like you don't know this song?
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♪ Stay up for hours ♪
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♪ See things
You don't understand ♪
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I mean,
it really looked like
I was giving it all I got,
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but I wasn't really doing
anything but minding my business
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and singing the damn song,
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because Bob and his dress
was really doing all the work.
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- ♪ You can ♪
- ♪ Can love me better ♪
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♪ I can love me better, baby ♪
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♪ Can love me better ♪
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I think a little wind doesn't
hurt, right, Bob? A little wind.
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The fabric, the beads,
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picking up that beachy breeze,
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00:15:10,618 --> 00:15:12,578
down at the old crypto center.
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♪ Can love me better ♪
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00:15:23,714 --> 00:15:25,883
♪ Can love me better ♪
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♪ I can love me better baby ♪
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- ♪ Can love me better ♪
- ♪ I can love me, can love me ♪
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00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:33,850
♪ Can love me better
I can love me better baby ♪
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00:15:33,933 --> 00:15:37,437
- ♪ Can love me better ♪
- ♪ I can love me, can love me ♪
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00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,481
♪ Can love me better
I can love me better, baby ♪
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♪ Can love me better ♪
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♪ I can love me better ♪
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♪ I can love me better
Than you can ♪
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Actually, let me get
a shot of these cops.
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It looks like you're getting
a police escort.
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- God.
- Wow,
this guy's important.
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00:16:41,083 --> 00:16:43,961
So your date for this
evening is Janelle, right?
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00:16:44,045 --> 00:16:45,254
- No, Joe.
- Mr. Joe.
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- I'm working.
- She's working.
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Are you kidding? I got in,
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got in by just the last second,
by a hair.
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- Yeah, I'm the date.
- You're the date.
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I'm the hard-working
woman tonight
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- Yes--
- Well, that sounded weird.
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No, I have no date.
These are my people.
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Oh, wow.
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00:17:05,650 --> 00:17:07,026
Entourage.
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00:17:08,027 --> 00:17:11,489
So Cher told us
about the first Met Gala
that she attended.
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00:17:11,614 --> 00:17:13,157
Yeah? What did she say?
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Well, she was telling us
a little about the evening.
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It was fun and smaller
at that time.
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00:17:18,371 --> 00:17:20,248
She had a really good time.
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00:17:37,306 --> 00:17:39,684
That was the most
amazing night.
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00:17:39,809 --> 00:17:43,145
It just was the most
amazing night ever.
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00:17:44,105 --> 00:17:46,107
I didn't know what I was
going to wear to this party
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00:17:46,190 --> 00:17:47,692
because it was the first party.
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00:17:47,775 --> 00:17:50,194
And Bob was saying, "What do
you think you want to wear?"
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00:17:50,278 --> 00:17:52,655
And I knew.
I knew what I wanted to wear.
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00:17:52,738 --> 00:17:54,323
There was only one
thing I wanted to wear,
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00:17:54,407 --> 00:17:55,783
and it was the dress.
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00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,538
And what it was
was that it was nude.
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00:18:00,663 --> 00:18:03,708
And it was almost like a--
It was a kind of gauze fabric.
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00:18:03,791 --> 00:18:05,167
And the exhibition--
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00:18:05,251 --> 00:18:06,627
It was actually
the Hollywood exhibition.
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00:18:06,711 --> 00:18:08,588
It was Diana Vreeland's
Hollywood Exhibition
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00:18:08,713 --> 00:18:10,339
of Time and Glamour.
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00:18:10,423 --> 00:18:13,217
And of course, we were sitting
with Diana Vreeland's table,
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00:18:13,301 --> 00:18:15,261
And we had movies,
old movie stars,
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00:18:15,386 --> 00:18:18,014
and all these amazing people.
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00:18:18,097 --> 00:18:19,682
And it was just so much fun.
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00:18:19,765 --> 00:18:23,561
The Met Ball used to be
catered by Glorious Food.
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00:18:23,686 --> 00:18:26,522
And I was a waiter
for Glorious Food that night.
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00:18:30,401 --> 00:18:34,363
I was entranced
by a great silent film star
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00:18:34,447 --> 00:18:36,157
who most people
are too young to remember
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named Lillian Gish, who was
one of the great actresses
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00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,494
of the early film days.
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And Lillian Gish
was sitting by herself,
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00:18:44,790 --> 00:18:48,711
and she was lit
by one candle on the table.
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00:18:52,131 --> 00:18:56,052
It was like a silent movie put
into color and brought to life.
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00:18:56,135 --> 00:18:57,470
She was riveting.
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00:18:57,845 --> 00:19:02,433
And just at that moment,
Cher walked in with Bob Mackie.
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00:19:02,808 --> 00:19:04,435
And at that point,
Lillian Gish looked up
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00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,564
and she went,
"Oh, my. Look at her."
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00:19:08,648 --> 00:19:10,524
And I did,
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00:19:10,608 --> 00:19:12,526
and so did everybody else
in the room.
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00:19:14,570 --> 00:19:16,656
It's not like I think,
"Oh, I walk in here,
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00:19:16,781 --> 00:19:18,324
I'm going to be
the most beautiful woman."
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00:19:18,449 --> 00:19:20,785
But I'm going to walk in
and I'm going to be me,
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00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:23,746
and whatever that is
at the moment,
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00:19:23,829 --> 00:19:26,415
I don't care what people
think, truthfully.
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00:19:26,832 --> 00:19:28,292
And this guy came up to me
and said,
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00:19:28,376 --> 00:19:30,586
how does it feel
to be at this party naked?
247
00:19:31,170 --> 00:19:34,215
And I went, "I don't know.
It feels okay."
248
00:19:34,298 --> 00:19:36,384
I mean, it was, like,
such a stupid question.
249
00:19:36,467 --> 00:19:38,386
My mom was pretty amazing.
250
00:19:38,469 --> 00:19:41,347
My mom was beautiful,
had a great body.
251
00:19:41,472 --> 00:19:43,599
She could-- She kicked ass.
252
00:19:43,683 --> 00:19:45,142
And she was a model.
253
00:19:45,267 --> 00:19:50,690
And so I learned a lot
about carrying myself
254
00:19:50,815 --> 00:19:52,233
when I wore a dress.
255
00:19:52,316 --> 00:19:55,611
And carrying myself
kind of made me think,
256
00:19:55,695 --> 00:19:59,156
"I don't give a fuck
what any of you guys think."
You know?
257
00:19:59,281 --> 00:20:01,951
You're like, "I'm going to do
what I want to do
258
00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:04,870
because it's me,
and if you like me--"
259
00:20:04,995 --> 00:20:08,499
Oh, I've had plenty of times
in my life where people thought,
260
00:20:08,582 --> 00:20:11,460
you know, "You're out of here."
I mean, constantly.
261
00:20:11,544 --> 00:20:13,295
"You won't be here another day."
262
00:20:13,379 --> 00:20:14,588
"You won't be here
another decade."
263
00:20:14,672 --> 00:20:16,507
"You won't be here
another minute."
264
00:20:17,883 --> 00:20:20,803
And your reaction
to that is always, well...
265
00:20:20,886 --> 00:20:23,139
I'm still here.
That's my reaction.
266
00:20:23,222 --> 00:20:25,808
It's like, I'll be here
when you might be gone.
267
00:20:29,645 --> 00:20:32,356
She was indeed.
It's a beautiful all--
268
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,525
Shiny black floor
and all these men in tuxedos,
269
00:20:34,650 --> 00:20:36,444
and Mitzi in a nude dress.
270
00:20:36,527 --> 00:20:39,530
Ladies and gentlemen,
Ms. Mitzi Gaynor.
271
00:20:54,253 --> 00:20:58,716
Oh, my gosh, that dress.
Well, the let-go dress.
272
00:20:59,258 --> 00:21:02,553
It's about
half an inch of souffle,
273
00:21:02,678 --> 00:21:03,888
and the rest is Mitzi.
274
00:21:03,971 --> 00:21:06,390
♪ Right now, but right now ♪
275
00:21:06,515 --> 00:21:08,893
- ♪ Hold back ♪
- ♪ Be practical, Jack and ♪
276
00:21:09,018 --> 00:21:10,436
♪ Hold back ♪
277
00:21:10,561 --> 00:21:12,563
♪ You feel like
You're busting inside ♪
278
00:21:12,688 --> 00:21:15,232
♪ Your heart's
In a desperate divide ♪
279
00:21:15,316 --> 00:21:16,942
♪ Hold back, hold back ♪
280
00:21:17,777 --> 00:21:19,904
♪ Hold back, hold back ♪
281
00:21:20,946 --> 00:21:22,865
Bob liked my figure.
282
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:28,454
And he said he wanted
to show my figure off.
283
00:21:28,579 --> 00:21:30,998
So he wanted to do something,
a nude dress.
284
00:21:31,791 --> 00:21:33,626
So I said, "Oh, Bob,
I can't wear that."
285
00:21:33,751 --> 00:21:34,794
He said, "Sure you can."
286
00:21:34,919 --> 00:21:36,462
So he did some tights,
287
00:21:37,463 --> 00:21:41,300
you know, some stockings
with hooks on them...
288
00:21:41,842 --> 00:21:43,385
and a little tiny...
289
00:21:44,303 --> 00:21:47,097
I'm trying to show you, girls.
It's like a...
290
00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:50,601
What can I say, it's like a...
291
00:21:53,354 --> 00:21:54,814
camisole.
292
00:21:54,897 --> 00:21:58,359
But it's just sheer, you know,
with the thread down the center
293
00:21:58,442 --> 00:22:01,737
to show where it joins,
and hooks and eyes.
294
00:22:01,821 --> 00:22:03,823
And that's underneath,
and that's it.
295
00:22:03,948 --> 00:22:06,617
Now, the dress is chiffon...
296
00:22:07,910 --> 00:22:10,621
but not the kind of chiffon
that we all know.
297
00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:12,456
It's more called souffle,
298
00:22:12,832 --> 00:22:16,001
which is the finest chiffon
you can find.
299
00:22:16,126 --> 00:22:17,378
It's real silk.
300
00:22:17,461 --> 00:22:18,921
And that's beads.
301
00:22:19,004 --> 00:22:23,717
My neck is covered to here,
long sleeves, long to the floor,
302
00:22:23,801 --> 00:22:25,719
and that's it, nude colored.
303
00:22:25,803 --> 00:22:28,472
And I think we can
show that dress.
Can't we show that dress?
304
00:22:30,099 --> 00:22:32,935
♪ Let go, let the moon know
You're alive ♪
305
00:22:33,018 --> 00:22:35,521
♪ Let the world know
You believe ♪
306
00:22:35,646 --> 00:22:40,317
♪ Let the world know
How you love to give ♪
307
00:22:40,401 --> 00:22:42,486
♪ Don't tell it in the city ♪
308
00:22:42,611 --> 00:22:44,989
♪ Go tell it on the mountain ♪
309
00:22:45,114 --> 00:22:49,660
♪ Go tell them all
Until they hear ♪
310
00:23:03,382 --> 00:23:06,677
And she-- Like, quote,
"you thought she was naked,"
311
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,679
but honestly,
she exposed nothing.
312
00:23:08,804 --> 00:23:11,599
But it was the combination
of her height, of her movement
313
00:23:11,682 --> 00:23:14,810
that, yes, the way the beads--
It's brilliant construction.
314
00:23:14,894 --> 00:23:16,353
It's unbelievable.
315
00:23:16,437 --> 00:23:17,521
But it was also the...
316
00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:19,607
It was the confidence.
317
00:23:19,690 --> 00:23:22,568
People always talk about
how style is really confidence.
318
00:23:22,651 --> 00:23:24,695
It was the confidence
that Cher had
319
00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:27,865
when she wore it,
when she wore these clothes.
320
00:23:27,948 --> 00:23:30,951
And I think also, the confidence
that Bob instilled in her.
321
00:23:31,035 --> 00:23:34,580
And she basically upstaged
everybody else in the room.
322
00:23:34,705 --> 00:23:35,998
Nobody remembers anything else.
323
00:23:36,081 --> 00:23:37,708
And of course, and then
it wound up on the cover
324
00:23:37,833 --> 00:23:39,209
of Time magazine.
325
00:23:41,545 --> 00:23:43,005
That must have been
quite a moment for you
326
00:23:43,088 --> 00:23:46,508
because that was the "it"
publication in the 1970s.
327
00:23:46,592 --> 00:23:48,510
And it still kind of is.
328
00:23:48,594 --> 00:23:50,721
But that must have
really impacted you.
329
00:23:50,804 --> 00:23:54,058
It did, but I think a lot of it
had to do with the dress.
330
00:23:54,141 --> 00:23:56,602
And in some of the
Southern states,
331
00:23:56,727 --> 00:23:58,562
they just took the cover off.
332
00:23:58,687 --> 00:24:00,606
And it was almost head to toe.
333
00:24:00,689 --> 00:24:03,567
You could see everything,
and a little bit of her
334
00:24:03,692 --> 00:24:05,527
in there too, you know,
quite a bit of her.
335
00:24:05,611 --> 00:24:07,071
And people were, like, shocked.
336
00:24:07,196 --> 00:24:09,698
But you couldn't see anything.
You just thought you could.
337
00:24:09,782 --> 00:24:11,075
That's the way my dresses are.
338
00:24:11,158 --> 00:24:12,743
You never really
can see anything.
339
00:24:12,868 --> 00:24:14,620
- Who's in the elevator?
- You just think you can.
340
00:24:14,745 --> 00:24:15,746
Show Bob.
341
00:24:16,497 --> 00:24:19,708
- It's an illusion?
- Illusion. It is an illusion.
342
00:24:19,792 --> 00:24:22,002
- That's the secret, then.
- That's what they call it.
343
00:24:22,086 --> 00:24:23,879
The moment of time
that you grow up,
344
00:24:23,963 --> 00:24:27,591
the moment of time that you see
the first woman
345
00:24:27,716 --> 00:24:30,094
that just moves you,
and you think, "Oh, my God,
346
00:24:30,219 --> 00:24:31,762
she's breathtakingly beautiful,"
347
00:24:31,887 --> 00:24:33,597
I think those things
stay with you.
348
00:24:33,722 --> 00:24:37,851
And I think they ultimately
form a sense of taste and style
349
00:24:37,935 --> 00:24:40,187
that remains with you
your entire life.
350
00:24:41,605 --> 00:24:45,109
Your core sensibilities,
I believe, are really formed,
351
00:24:45,776 --> 00:24:47,111
not necessarily in childhood,
352
00:24:47,194 --> 00:24:49,780
but let's say
early adolescence, adolescence.
353
00:24:50,614 --> 00:24:52,449
And the interesting thing is,
354
00:24:52,533 --> 00:24:54,743
my tastes
were formed in the '70s.
355
00:24:54,827 --> 00:24:59,123
And the clothes of Bob Mackie
were very much
356
00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:03,794
part of what I absorbed
as visual beauty.
357
00:25:14,805 --> 00:25:19,059
And, come on,
let's face it. Cher.
358
00:25:21,645 --> 00:25:24,481
I mean, what better body
to put clothes on,
359
00:25:24,565 --> 00:25:29,945
or to put very few clothes on
than that gorgeous creature?
360
00:25:30,029 --> 00:25:34,783
♪ Let me entertain you ♪
361
00:25:34,867 --> 00:25:36,910
What are my real measurements?
362
00:25:38,871 --> 00:25:39,705
Well...
363
00:25:43,042 --> 00:25:44,710
Hold on just a second. Bob?
364
00:25:44,835 --> 00:25:46,003
♪ Let me do ♪
365
00:25:46,086 --> 00:25:48,839
I think Bob
and Cher are family.
366
00:25:48,964 --> 00:25:53,844
Maybe they're not connected
by DNA officially,
367
00:25:53,927 --> 00:25:55,721
but they're connected.
368
00:25:55,846 --> 00:25:56,972
They're both shy.
369
00:25:57,848 --> 00:25:59,725
Isn't that interesting?
370
00:25:59,850 --> 00:26:01,685
They're both shy.
371
00:26:01,769 --> 00:26:05,189
And both of them
have this talent
372
00:26:05,272 --> 00:26:09,151
to express themselves in a way
that's larger than life.
373
00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:14,698
And Bob realized, hey, you know,
this is an opportunity
374
00:26:14,823 --> 00:26:16,200
to create a character.
375
00:26:16,325 --> 00:26:19,953
And Cher really became
a character under his guidance,
376
00:26:20,037 --> 00:26:22,122
and developed all these
wild and crazy looks
377
00:26:22,206 --> 00:26:25,793
that more or less
helped make her into a star.
378
00:26:26,877 --> 00:26:28,545
And great charisma.
379
00:26:28,670 --> 00:26:30,881
You know, people just
are fascinated with her.
380
00:26:31,006 --> 00:26:33,759
This many years later,
50 years later,
381
00:26:33,884 --> 00:26:35,761
people are filling up stadiums
382
00:26:35,844 --> 00:26:37,805
to see
what she's going to look like.
383
00:26:38,222 --> 00:26:41,225
She inhabits
those clothes like
a comfortable pair of jeans.
384
00:26:41,308 --> 00:26:44,520
She doesn't think all this
crazy stuff is that outrageous.
385
00:26:44,603 --> 00:26:48,232
But she wears it with a casual
flair that nobody else can.
386
00:26:54,363 --> 00:26:57,116
♪ Let me sing you some songs ♪
387
00:26:57,241 --> 00:27:00,577
♪ Some rock and roll
music songs ♪
388
00:27:00,702 --> 00:27:04,331
♪ That you ain't ever heard ♪
389
00:27:06,083 --> 00:27:08,085
♪ And if you're real good ♪
390
00:27:09,044 --> 00:27:11,713
♪ I'll make you feel good ♪
391
00:27:11,797 --> 00:27:17,219
♪ I want your spirits to climb ♪
392
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,226
♪ So let me entertain you ♪
393
00:27:25,352 --> 00:27:29,231
♪ And we'll have
A real good time ♪
394
00:27:29,314 --> 00:27:30,941
♪ Oh, yeah ♪
395
00:27:31,024 --> 00:27:33,902
♪ We'll have ♪
396
00:27:33,986 --> 00:27:39,116
♪ We'll have a real good time ♪
397
00:27:39,199 --> 00:27:41,994
♪ Oh, yeah ♪
398
00:27:42,786 --> 00:27:48,876
♪ We'll have a real good time ♪
399
00:27:56,717 --> 00:27:59,011
Can I hear a little commotion
for the dress? Hm?
400
00:27:59,094 --> 00:27:59,928
A little bit?
401
00:28:06,894 --> 00:28:08,061
Thank you.
402
00:28:08,145 --> 00:28:10,189
Now let's hear it
for the back of the dress.
403
00:28:18,947 --> 00:28:20,824
Anyway, my name is Cher.
404
00:28:20,949 --> 00:28:25,204
That's, like, to me, the perfect
collaboration, Cher and Bob.
405
00:28:25,329 --> 00:28:27,122
As a matter of fact,
we used to tape
406
00:28:27,206 --> 00:28:29,750
right next door
to Sonny and Cher .
407
00:28:29,833 --> 00:28:31,001
And on any given night,
408
00:28:31,126 --> 00:28:33,337
if Cher was doing
her big number,
409
00:28:33,962 --> 00:28:35,964
we'd all have to go see
what Cher was wearing.
410
00:28:36,048 --> 00:28:38,842
So you literally would run
through the ladies room
411
00:28:39,259 --> 00:28:40,761
because that connected
the two--
412
00:28:40,844 --> 00:28:42,346
Because they'd close
those big stage doors.
413
00:28:42,471 --> 00:28:45,182
So the quickest way to get there
was through the toilet.
414
00:28:45,265 --> 00:28:47,726
So you'd run through the ladies'
room, run on to Cher's stage
415
00:28:47,851 --> 00:28:49,311
to see what she was wearing.
416
00:28:49,394 --> 00:28:51,647
And it was always
something incredible.
417
00:28:51,730 --> 00:28:56,193
It's this kind of cosmic
type of emotional thing
418
00:28:56,318 --> 00:28:58,779
that's really bigger
than just the clothes.
419
00:28:58,862 --> 00:29:01,698
Almost all of those clothes
can be worn in some way
420
00:29:01,782 --> 00:29:05,285
by someone tomorrow,
and still be great,
421
00:29:05,369 --> 00:29:09,748
and still get a lot of attention
and still tell a story.
422
00:29:09,831 --> 00:29:12,876
When you talk about
her life, she interjects a lot.
423
00:29:13,001 --> 00:29:15,796
And all of her
stories involve Bob
424
00:29:15,879 --> 00:29:18,799
because they created looks
for each moment together.
425
00:29:18,882 --> 00:29:22,302
But she said her life really
changed when Bob came into it.
426
00:29:22,386 --> 00:29:25,055
And they had this collaboration,
this shorthand,
427
00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:28,225
where they could
both plan to shock
428
00:29:28,308 --> 00:29:33,230
and titillate audiences in a
way that nobody had before.
429
00:29:33,313 --> 00:29:37,234
Certainly on network television,
they were scandalous.
430
00:29:37,317 --> 00:29:38,402
And they loved it.
431
00:29:38,485 --> 00:29:40,279
You know,
they pushed each other.
432
00:29:40,404 --> 00:29:42,072
And there's a great line
in the show
433
00:29:42,197 --> 00:29:45,325
where the censor is complaining
about her belly button,
434
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:47,244
or under-boob.
435
00:29:47,327 --> 00:29:48,954
The censor's complaining
that under-boob is showing.
436
00:29:49,079 --> 00:29:50,789
He said, "Well, maybe if we just
stand her on her head,
437
00:29:50,914 --> 00:29:52,082
it'll be cleavage."
438
00:29:53,041 --> 00:29:55,043
And we took the line.
It's Bob's real line,
439
00:29:55,127 --> 00:29:56,420
and it's in the show.
440
00:29:56,545 --> 00:29:59,256
And I think that was
kind of the fun for them,
441
00:29:59,339 --> 00:30:01,091
the two of them
against the world.
442
00:30:23,155 --> 00:30:27,576
You gotta be ready to be noticed
if you're wearing Bob Mackie.
443
00:30:29,119 --> 00:30:30,746
Ready to be noticed.
444
00:30:33,123 --> 00:30:34,124
Yeah.
445
00:30:34,875 --> 00:30:37,878
I've known Bob
and Bob's work my whole life.
446
00:30:37,961 --> 00:30:43,967
I mean, I'll never forget that
moment, probably, what, 1986?
447
00:30:47,971 --> 00:30:49,765
And it was such
a climactic moment,
448
00:30:49,848 --> 00:30:54,770
just in media
and in the world, right?
449
00:30:54,853 --> 00:30:57,230
Everything was excessive
and bejeweled.
450
00:30:57,314 --> 00:31:01,985
I mean, we're living kind of
in that moment of excess.
451
00:31:02,110 --> 00:31:05,614
But here was something
that was shocking.
452
00:31:06,281 --> 00:31:08,325
And it was in that moment
of excess,
453
00:31:08,408 --> 00:31:09,785
but it was still beautiful.
454
00:31:11,411 --> 00:31:14,498
In fact, I think Jane Fonda
was the one who introduced her.
455
00:31:14,581 --> 00:31:17,501
And she says, wait till you see
what she has coming out in.
456
00:31:17,584 --> 00:31:19,961
To present the Oscar
for Supporting Actor
457
00:31:20,045 --> 00:31:21,797
is one of the most
glamorous people
458
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,132
in this or any other business,
and you better believe it.
459
00:31:24,216 --> 00:31:26,343
Wait till you see
what's gonna come out here.
460
00:31:26,635 --> 00:31:28,845
She herself
was a Best Supporting Actress
461
00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:31,223
nominee for her role
in Silkwood , and this year,
462
00:31:31,348 --> 00:31:33,475
won acclaim
for her work in Mask .
463
00:31:33,558 --> 00:31:37,020
Ladies and gentlemen,
in a word, Cher.
464
00:31:39,231 --> 00:31:40,440
Well, I was in town,
465
00:31:40,524 --> 00:31:42,275
and I don't know
if she was here doing a film
466
00:31:42,359 --> 00:31:45,987
or she was here
just hanging out with Tom Cruise
467
00:31:46,071 --> 00:31:47,030
in his apartment.
468
00:31:47,155 --> 00:31:49,074
I just went over and she said,
469
00:31:49,157 --> 00:31:51,368
I'm going to be
presenting an Oscar.
470
00:31:51,451 --> 00:31:53,036
Wasn't she mad about something?
471
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,205
Well, she was--
Yeah, she was pissed off.
472
00:31:55,622 --> 00:31:57,833
Because I didn't get
nominated for a movie
473
00:31:57,916 --> 00:32:00,085
that everyone thought
I would actually win,
474
00:32:00,210 --> 00:32:01,378
but I didn't get nominated,
475
00:32:01,461 --> 00:32:03,171
and they thought
I wasn't serious.
476
00:32:03,255 --> 00:32:05,841
I didn't dress
like a serious actress,
477
00:32:05,924 --> 00:32:08,176
and I had--
My boyfriends were strange.
478
00:32:08,260 --> 00:32:12,055
So I decided--
I had this idea in my mind.
479
00:32:12,139 --> 00:32:14,474
Well, she said,
"I'm giving out this award,
480
00:32:14,558 --> 00:32:18,061
and they haven't seen me
look like I used to look."
481
00:32:18,186 --> 00:32:19,855
Because she'd been
making movies.
482
00:32:19,938 --> 00:32:22,065
She was in these movies
where she was playing kind of
483
00:32:22,190 --> 00:32:24,067
down-and-dirty characters,
you know.
484
00:32:24,192 --> 00:32:25,527
- Silkwood, right?
- Silkwood.
485
00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:27,863
And, you know,
she wasn't glamorous.
486
00:32:27,946 --> 00:32:30,657
And they hadn't seen her
all dressed up.
487
00:32:34,327 --> 00:32:35,537
And for her to get dressed up,
488
00:32:35,620 --> 00:32:37,456
it didn't mean putting on
a pretty dress.
489
00:32:37,581 --> 00:32:40,625
It meant putting on, you know,
a good outfit.
490
00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:43,253
And I had my sketch pad,
and I started drawing.
491
00:32:43,378 --> 00:32:44,629
I'd just draw a little bit
492
00:32:44,754 --> 00:32:46,381
because I knew I probably
wouldn't see her again
493
00:32:46,465 --> 00:32:49,050
for a month or so,
so I had to get it all moving.
494
00:32:49,134 --> 00:32:51,511
Sometimes I'd say,
"I have this idea."
495
00:32:52,095 --> 00:32:56,266
And I think I just started
with the big feathers.
496
00:32:56,391 --> 00:32:57,893
And I said, "I just want the--"
497
00:32:58,018 --> 00:33:00,103
He said, "You don't have to
say anything else.
498
00:33:00,187 --> 00:33:02,481
We have real shorthand
with each other too.
499
00:33:03,398 --> 00:33:05,442
I said, "Well, should she
have a loin cloth?"
500
00:33:05,567 --> 00:33:07,319
"Oh, yeah, I want a loin cloth."
501
00:33:07,444 --> 00:33:09,029
Well, you think, "Oh..."
502
00:33:09,112 --> 00:33:11,156
Well, maybe you could have
these black tights with boots.
503
00:33:11,281 --> 00:33:13,200
And she,
"Oh, yeah, that's cool."
504
00:33:13,283 --> 00:33:15,952
You know, before you know it,
she had the big wrap
505
00:33:16,036 --> 00:33:18,121
and the big Mohawk headdress.
506
00:33:18,246 --> 00:33:20,916
So there's a lot of mystique
around the creation of these,
507
00:33:21,041 --> 00:33:23,293
and no one really knows,
the chicken or the egg.
508
00:33:23,376 --> 00:33:25,420
Are you giving him the ideas?
509
00:33:25,504 --> 00:33:28,006
No, no, no. Not usually.
Not usually.
510
00:33:28,131 --> 00:33:30,258
Only for a couple.
Only for a couple.
511
00:33:30,342 --> 00:33:32,469
That one I just had--
512
00:33:32,552 --> 00:33:34,262
It came to me.
You know what I mean?
513
00:33:34,346 --> 00:33:35,639
It just kind of came to me.
514
00:33:35,764 --> 00:33:38,016
You know, and I thought,
"Are you sure you wanna
515
00:33:38,141 --> 00:33:39,935
dress like this for the Oscars?"
516
00:33:53,281 --> 00:33:55,033
That girl, she knows.
517
00:33:55,116 --> 00:33:57,244
She knows how to get
her picture in the paper.
518
00:33:57,327 --> 00:33:59,704
It's so exciting,
and it's so much fun.
519
00:33:59,829 --> 00:34:02,207
Like, you see the design
on paper
520
00:34:02,332 --> 00:34:05,585
and you know what you're
going to be able to do in it.
521
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:07,128
And I was coming around,
522
00:34:07,212 --> 00:34:08,463
and Jane Fonda
was coming around,
523
00:34:08,547 --> 00:34:10,215
and she looked at me
and she said,
524
00:34:10,340 --> 00:34:12,509
"Cher, please wait till I get to
my seat before you come out.
525
00:34:12,592 --> 00:34:14,344
Just, please," she said.
"I can't wait.
526
00:34:14,469 --> 00:34:16,179
I want to see
everybody's reaction."
527
00:34:29,526 --> 00:34:31,653
Thank you. Thank you.
528
00:34:31,736 --> 00:34:33,530
And I walked out and I said--
529
00:34:33,613 --> 00:34:36,449
As you can see,
I did receive my Academy booklet
530
00:34:36,533 --> 00:34:39,369
on how to dress
like a serious actress.
531
00:34:42,664 --> 00:34:44,666
And it was kind of my,
you know--
532
00:34:44,749 --> 00:34:47,127
My you-know-what moment.
533
00:34:47,836 --> 00:34:50,505
What does that mean,
the you-know-what moment?
534
00:34:50,589 --> 00:34:53,675
My "fuck you" moment
to the Academy.
535
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,344
Because it was like, you know,
536
00:34:56,428 --> 00:34:59,639
all you have to judge me on
is my work, not my life.
537
00:35:00,515 --> 00:35:03,226
Who cares about a beautiful
dress sometimes at the Oscars?
538
00:35:03,310 --> 00:35:04,644
Sometimes you want more.
539
00:35:04,728 --> 00:35:06,605
You want something that's
gonna stand the test of time
540
00:35:06,730 --> 00:35:08,565
and that people
are still gonna really see
541
00:35:08,648 --> 00:35:10,150
when we're all dead and gone.
542
00:35:10,233 --> 00:35:11,568
It's like, that Cher thing
is still gonna be there,
543
00:35:11,651 --> 00:35:13,236
and it's still
gonna be fucking crazy.
544
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,280
And I think that's really great.
545
00:35:15,655 --> 00:35:19,075
A collaboration is way more
interesting and exciting
546
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,327
than a one-off gig.
547
00:35:20,410 --> 00:35:22,245
You learn from mistakes
548
00:35:22,370 --> 00:35:25,665
and you fail in order to do
really amazing things.
549
00:35:25,749 --> 00:35:28,627
So when you're doing
great costumes,
550
00:35:28,752 --> 00:35:31,546
that's usually from knowing
the person well,
551
00:35:31,630 --> 00:35:33,423
and knowing
what you can get away with.
552
00:35:33,506 --> 00:35:36,426
How something's going to look
on stage, how someone moves,
553
00:35:36,551 --> 00:35:39,346
how their body reacts to fabric,
554
00:35:39,429 --> 00:35:42,724
and to cut, and how
they can handle themselves.
555
00:35:42,807 --> 00:35:45,602
When she first
appeared at the Oscars
556
00:35:45,685 --> 00:35:48,730
in her big Mohawk thing
with her bare midriff,
557
00:35:48,813 --> 00:35:53,318
giving an award to Don Ameche,
people were horrified.
558
00:35:53,443 --> 00:35:55,445
"Why, that's not fashion."
559
00:35:55,570 --> 00:35:57,822
They were just--
They were just horrified.
560
00:35:57,947 --> 00:36:00,075
And now, every year they say,
561
00:36:00,158 --> 00:36:03,578
"Why can't it be like the old
days when Cher came to the--"
You know.
562
00:36:04,245 --> 00:36:06,623
The same thing
just goes on and on and on.
563
00:36:06,748 --> 00:36:08,875
But as
the man behind that...
564
00:36:09,417 --> 00:36:11,086
- What?
- You're the man behind that.
565
00:36:11,169 --> 00:36:14,756
No, but I tell you, I'm
more conservative than that.
566
00:36:14,839 --> 00:36:18,093
But she wanted
to make a big splash
567
00:36:18,176 --> 00:36:20,512
because nobody had seen her
dress like that for a long time.
568
00:36:20,595 --> 00:36:24,974
I mean, Bob
invented the red carpet
as far as I'm concerned.
569
00:36:26,851 --> 00:36:30,355
All the very sheer
clothes that Cher wore,
570
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,358
and others, which years later
571
00:36:33,441 --> 00:36:37,654
many of the designers
were doing on Jennifer Lopez
and Beyoncé.
572
00:36:37,779 --> 00:36:40,115
I mean, Bob was doing that
before anybody,
573
00:36:40,198 --> 00:36:43,451
strategically placing
some sequins and beads
574
00:36:43,535 --> 00:36:45,120
in all the right places.
575
00:36:45,203 --> 00:36:49,666
He made women look so beyond
extraordinary and sexy,
576
00:36:49,791 --> 00:36:51,668
and it was never--
577
00:36:51,793 --> 00:36:54,254
I don't think it was ever tacky.
578
00:36:54,337 --> 00:36:56,798
It was just right
for the occasion.
579
00:36:56,881 --> 00:36:59,175
I met him when I was 19,
580
00:36:59,259 --> 00:37:01,720
so I had on
what I considered fashion.
581
00:37:01,845 --> 00:37:03,763
Sonny and I
wore our fashion, right?
582
00:37:03,847 --> 00:37:05,598
But I did not
understand anything
583
00:37:05,682 --> 00:37:07,684
about the world of fashion.
584
00:37:07,809 --> 00:37:09,519
You know, Bob did costumes,
585
00:37:09,644 --> 00:37:13,398
and fashion people looked down
on him for some reason.
586
00:37:14,816 --> 00:37:16,693
This is my theory of it.
587
00:37:16,776 --> 00:37:20,238
He showed different parts,
but it was great fashion.
588
00:37:20,864 --> 00:37:25,410
It wasn't that everything
wasn't beautifully designed.
589
00:37:25,493 --> 00:37:29,497
It was just,
you were seeing things
that you hadn't seen before.
590
00:37:29,581 --> 00:37:32,459
I mean, no one had ever
seen a belly button on TV.
591
00:37:35,253 --> 00:37:36,921
But I think we got away with it
592
00:37:37,046 --> 00:37:39,507
because Sonny and I
were married.
593
00:37:39,591 --> 00:37:42,635
I mean, they weren't
going for it in the beginning,
594
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,304
but we just kept pushing.
595
00:37:44,387 --> 00:37:45,930
And when they did research
596
00:37:46,055 --> 00:37:48,558
and saw how important
the clothes were,
597
00:37:48,641 --> 00:37:50,185
then they backed off,
598
00:37:50,268 --> 00:37:52,437
and then they were, "Okay,
spend whatever you want."
599
00:38:00,278 --> 00:38:03,948
I don't know who woke up
one day and said,
600
00:38:04,073 --> 00:38:07,744
"I'm the king of saying
that costuming isn't art,"
601
00:38:07,827 --> 00:38:09,078
because it is.
602
00:38:13,291 --> 00:38:17,629
So when he got that CFDA
award, I was so happy for him
603
00:38:17,712 --> 00:38:19,923
because he finally got the nod
from them, realizing,
604
00:38:20,006 --> 00:38:23,218
"Of course, we've been stealing
from you for years."
605
00:38:23,301 --> 00:38:25,345
But back when he started,
606
00:38:25,428 --> 00:38:29,307
it was still a more sedate
fashion world,
607
00:38:29,432 --> 00:38:30,725
and a little too serious.
608
00:38:30,809 --> 00:38:33,019
And now it's not
that way at all.
609
00:38:38,858 --> 00:38:41,903
Fashion is
a little snobby, right?
610
00:38:43,613 --> 00:38:44,656
A little bit.
611
00:38:45,406 --> 00:38:47,575
So when you have someone
who's a showman,
612
00:38:47,659 --> 00:38:51,246
who's about feathers
and sequins,
613
00:38:51,329 --> 00:38:56,584
you might not think that is
a level of taste or of design
614
00:38:56,668 --> 00:38:59,629
that is warranted recognition.
615
00:39:01,005 --> 00:39:05,552
Well, I think time
tells truth, right?
616
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,271
Well, some people say, you know,
you work on a character
617
00:39:16,354 --> 00:39:18,356
from the inside out.
618
00:39:18,481 --> 00:39:20,817
But there are those,
and I'm one of those,
619
00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:27,282
who knows that you can develop
a character from the outside in.
620
00:39:27,407 --> 00:39:30,952
I've always said that drag
is like the Superman
621
00:39:31,035 --> 00:39:33,705
to my Clark Kent,
because something happens
622
00:39:33,830 --> 00:39:37,333
when you put on
a Bob Mackie outfit.
623
00:39:37,458 --> 00:39:39,794
Something magical happens.
624
00:39:43,506 --> 00:39:45,008
Good evening. I'm Bob Mackie.
625
00:39:45,091 --> 00:39:47,635
Welcome aboard, Mr. Mackie.
I'm Captain Stubing.
626
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,762
- It's an honor to meet you.
- Thank you, captain.
627
00:39:49,846 --> 00:39:53,433
Mr. Mackie designs the gowns
for all the big TV stars.
628
00:39:53,516 --> 00:39:55,310
Carol Burnett,
Anne Margaret, Cher.
629
00:39:55,393 --> 00:39:57,687
That's right. You've heard them
say clothes make the man.
630
00:39:57,812 --> 00:39:59,439
Well, I'm the man
that makes the clothes.
631
00:39:59,522 --> 00:40:01,858
- I hope you enjoy the cruise.
- I'm sure I will.
632
00:40:01,941 --> 00:40:06,738
Milhouse, if you stay
a little while longer,
633
00:40:06,821 --> 00:40:09,407
you can have this blazer.
It's a Bob Mackie original.
634
00:40:09,532 --> 00:40:12,535
Wow, a Bob Mackie.
635
00:40:12,660 --> 00:40:13,912
Who likes glittery, fun things?
636
00:40:14,037 --> 00:40:15,997
Holy shit, is that a
fucking Bob Mackie gown?
637
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,040
Yeah.
638
00:40:17,123 --> 00:40:19,375
Oh, my goodness.
639
00:40:19,459 --> 00:40:21,878
- Um, you might want to see this.
- Mm.
640
00:40:21,961 --> 00:40:23,838
- It's Ms. Cummings.
- Uh-oh.
641
00:40:24,672 --> 00:40:27,342
- Is it ever Ms. Cummings.
- Oh, my...
642
00:40:27,425 --> 00:40:28,676
Oh, my God.
643
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,470
Bob Mackie, where
are you when we need you?
644
00:40:30,553 --> 00:40:31,846
She looks like a
cocktail waitress
645
00:40:31,930 --> 00:40:33,598
on an oil rig or something.
646
00:40:33,723 --> 00:40:35,934
Doesn't--? Look at the piping.
Look at the piping.
647
00:40:50,114 --> 00:40:52,241
Mm-hm. Yeah.
648
00:40:54,577 --> 00:40:57,455
I think for Cher and Bob,
it was mutual.
649
00:40:57,580 --> 00:41:00,583
I think Bob put
his stamp on Elton.
650
00:41:02,919 --> 00:41:04,087
Absolutely.
651
00:41:04,212 --> 00:41:06,798
He helped craft
that era of Elton John.
652
00:41:11,052 --> 00:41:15,598
Elton was on a special
with Cher and Bette Midler.
653
00:41:16,015 --> 00:41:17,642
And the three of them
worked together,
654
00:41:17,725 --> 00:41:20,603
and they sang together,
and they were quite fabulous.
655
00:41:20,728 --> 00:41:23,648
And he's looking
at what Cher's got on.
656
00:41:24,148 --> 00:41:26,567
And I dressed him.
I did a great outfit for him.
657
00:41:26,651 --> 00:41:29,654
It was all silver and quilted,
and a big top hat.
658
00:41:29,779 --> 00:41:31,572
- ♪ Moc ♪
- ♪ Yeah ♪
659
00:41:31,656 --> 00:41:33,616
- ♪ King ♪
- ♪ Yeah ♪
660
00:41:33,741 --> 00:41:35,493
- ♪ Bird ♪
- ♪ Yeah ♪
661
00:41:35,618 --> 00:41:37,745
- ♪ Yeah ♪
- ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ♪
662
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:39,831
♪ Mockingbird now ♪
663
00:41:39,956 --> 00:41:41,833
♪ Everybody have you heard ♪
664
00:41:41,958 --> 00:41:43,042
♪ Have you heard ♪
665
00:41:43,126 --> 00:41:45,128
♪ He's gonna buy me... ♪
666
00:41:45,253 --> 00:41:47,088
And she was
all in silver and white,
667
00:41:47,171 --> 00:41:49,799
and Bette was all silver bangles
and sequins.
668
00:41:49,882 --> 00:41:51,551
It was fun.
669
00:41:51,634 --> 00:41:55,555
And he said, "Would you make me
some costumes?" Some outfits,
670
00:41:55,638 --> 00:41:56,848
or some suits, or whatever.
671
00:41:56,973 --> 00:41:58,599
I don't know what
he said exactly.
672
00:41:58,683 --> 00:42:00,184
I said, "Well, what kind of
things would you like?"
673
00:42:00,977 --> 00:42:04,814
And he said, "Well,
things like you do for Cher."
674
00:42:05,273 --> 00:42:07,150
And I went, "Okay."
675
00:42:07,734 --> 00:42:08,901
And I did.
676
00:42:17,201 --> 00:42:20,705
Well, Bob did a lot of things
for Elton John in the '70s,
677
00:42:20,788 --> 00:42:23,499
and Elton loved everything,
and he would try anything.
678
00:42:23,624 --> 00:42:24,792
And so he was game.
679
00:42:27,628 --> 00:42:29,672
I think Elton was pushing Bob.
680
00:42:30,798 --> 00:42:33,676
Most designers, I think,
when you wear their clothes,
681
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,553
they become part of you,
and they become your friends.
682
00:42:35,678 --> 00:42:38,473
And that's why I like to have
relationships with designers.
683
00:42:38,556 --> 00:42:40,683
Because you get to know them,
they get to know you,
684
00:42:40,808 --> 00:42:41,976
and you have fun with them.
685
00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:44,896
Do I regret any of it?
Not really.
686
00:42:45,021 --> 00:42:46,856
There's some clunkers,
but there always is.
687
00:42:46,981 --> 00:42:49,525
But I'm surprised
that Donald Duck outfit
wasn't in here.
688
00:42:49,650 --> 00:42:51,652
But again, it was Bob Mackie
thinking, "All right,
689
00:42:51,736 --> 00:42:54,947
You're gonna be Donald Duck."
And I went, "Oh, fine.
Great, lovely."
690
00:42:56,574 --> 00:42:57,700
Me.
691
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,204
Well, he had one
as Minnie Mouse once.
692
00:43:01,329 --> 00:43:03,039
You know, figure that one out.
693
00:43:04,373 --> 00:43:05,750
Did he suggest it?
694
00:43:05,833 --> 00:43:07,627
Well, "What could I
dress up like?"
695
00:43:07,710 --> 00:43:09,837
And he said,
"Could I be Minnie Mouse?"
696
00:43:09,921 --> 00:43:12,090
And I said,
"Yeah, sure you can."
697
00:43:12,715 --> 00:43:13,716
Why not?
698
00:43:13,841 --> 00:43:15,051
And I said,
"How about Donald Duck?"
699
00:43:15,176 --> 00:43:16,886
And we did a couple
of different ones.
700
00:43:17,011 --> 00:43:18,221
And he reacted to that?
701
00:43:18,304 --> 00:43:20,181
Oh, he loved it.
He just loved dressing up.
702
00:43:20,264 --> 00:43:24,227
You know, he was-- That was when
you'd see him really laughing,
703
00:43:24,352 --> 00:43:26,104
and he was having the best time.
704
00:43:26,187 --> 00:43:27,897
But throughout my career,
clothes have been
somewhat important.
705
00:43:27,980 --> 00:43:30,525
Without that process
of dressing up
706
00:43:30,608 --> 00:43:33,778
and looking different
and having fun,
707
00:43:33,861 --> 00:43:37,240
I would never have been
the artist that I became. Never.
708
00:43:41,828 --> 00:43:43,621
"And guess what?
The TDF costume collection,
709
00:43:43,746 --> 00:43:45,164
in honor of Met Gala's theme
of camp,
710
00:43:45,248 --> 00:43:48,209
join us in toasting to
The King of Camp, Bob Mackie."
711
00:43:49,836 --> 00:43:51,754
- Who did that?
- The TDF. They've put a note--
712
00:43:51,838 --> 00:43:53,923
- Your costume collection.
- Yeah, it's your whole video.
713
00:43:54,006 --> 00:43:55,591
Well, here I am,
the King of Camp,
714
00:43:55,716 --> 00:43:57,802
and I'm trying to be
so conservative.
715
00:43:57,927 --> 00:43:59,679
- That's the one that I said--
- Yeah, that's the back--
716
00:43:59,762 --> 00:44:01,639
No, but this is--
717
00:44:01,764 --> 00:44:03,224
This really is your night.
- No, it isn't really my night.
718
00:44:03,307 --> 00:44:04,392
King of Camp?
719
00:44:05,101 --> 00:44:06,060
Well...
720
00:44:08,020 --> 00:44:09,939
- I don't know.
- They think it is, I guess.
721
00:44:10,022 --> 00:44:11,691
Clearly.
722
00:44:11,774 --> 00:44:13,609
Well, two journalists said that
today, that you're the King--
723
00:44:13,734 --> 00:44:15,736
Most people don't even
know what "camp" is.
724
00:44:15,820 --> 00:44:18,030
"Camp is an
aesthetic style and sensibility
725
00:44:18,114 --> 00:44:19,574
that regards something
as appealing
726
00:44:19,657 --> 00:44:21,826
because of its bad taste
and ironic value."
727
00:44:21,951 --> 00:44:23,202
Um...
728
00:44:23,286 --> 00:44:26,080
Okay, that sounds so negative
though, doesn't it?
729
00:44:26,164 --> 00:44:30,126
I mean, camp is--
I don't see camp as being bad.
730
00:44:30,209 --> 00:44:32,795
I mean, like,
it's very "ta-da," right?
731
00:44:33,212 --> 00:44:34,755
Ta-da!
732
00:44:37,717 --> 00:44:40,887
That's what we're going
to Bob Mackie for. "Ta-da."
733
00:44:45,474 --> 00:44:48,728
Of course.
Yes, but with good humor.
734
00:44:48,811 --> 00:44:50,021
Absolutely.
735
00:44:53,191 --> 00:44:58,696
I mean, campy is great
if it's done with love
736
00:44:59,113 --> 00:45:00,990
and with technique and care.
737
00:45:01,115 --> 00:45:04,285
Of course.
I mean, this is razzle-dazzle.
738
00:45:04,368 --> 00:45:07,246
This is-- This is magic land.
739
00:45:15,004 --> 00:45:17,173
I mean, you know,
like, Las Vegas.
740
00:45:17,298 --> 00:45:21,135
I used to do big shows
in Vegas, the showgirls.
741
00:45:21,219 --> 00:45:23,179
Outfits on showgirls
are the campiest thing
742
00:45:23,262 --> 00:45:26,015
that ever happened
if you do it right.
743
00:45:26,849 --> 00:45:28,809
And I loved doing it.
It was fun.
744
00:45:29,352 --> 00:45:31,354
It kind of came natural.
I don't know why.
745
00:45:32,396 --> 00:45:36,651
Was it born with the musicals
that you watched as a kid?
746
00:45:36,734 --> 00:45:37,818
Somewhat.
747
00:45:37,902 --> 00:45:39,820
There were showgirls
in musicals,
748
00:45:39,904 --> 00:45:42,323
seeing, you know,
Ziegfeld Follies
749
00:45:42,406 --> 00:45:45,159
and those fabulous MGM things.
750
00:45:45,243 --> 00:45:46,410
And it was just...
751
00:45:46,994 --> 00:45:49,372
I-- I guess I liked it.
752
00:45:49,455 --> 00:45:51,707
It sunk in, I guess.
I don't know.
753
00:46:08,849 --> 00:46:12,270
I love movies,
I loved going
to Technicolor movies
754
00:46:12,395 --> 00:46:13,938
and musicals and all that.
755
00:46:14,063 --> 00:46:18,859
And-- And actually, they
used to take me to the movies
756
00:46:18,943 --> 00:46:22,238
when I was a little kid,
my sister and my mother.
757
00:46:34,375 --> 00:46:36,377
The one movie,
when I really decided
758
00:46:36,460 --> 00:46:39,005
to become a costume designer,
was a Gene Kelly movie,
759
00:46:39,088 --> 00:46:40,464
An American in Paris .
760
00:46:43,884 --> 00:46:47,930
And I went, "Oh, I could
do this. I bet I could do this."
761
00:46:50,474 --> 00:46:53,728
And before I knew it, I knew
the name of every movie star
762
00:46:53,811 --> 00:46:57,273
and what they did, and what
they looked, how they dressed.
763
00:46:57,356 --> 00:46:59,775
Carmen Miranda
was my favorite movie star
764
00:46:59,859 --> 00:47:02,820
when I was, you know,
like 6 years old.
765
00:47:03,571 --> 00:47:05,364
But why not?
She was like a clown.
766
00:47:05,448 --> 00:47:08,951
She was like-- All that color
and all that stuff in her hair,
767
00:47:09,076 --> 00:47:11,287
and the fruit and the--
I mean, she's crazy.
768
00:47:21,255 --> 00:47:23,007
I'm a lucky guy
because I got to do
769
00:47:23,132 --> 00:47:25,301
kind of what I always thought
I would like to do.
770
00:47:25,384 --> 00:47:27,136
And you don't always
get to do that.
771
00:47:27,219 --> 00:47:28,804
You know, it's funny,
772
00:47:28,929 --> 00:47:31,766
and I can't imagine as a
little kid going to the movies.
773
00:47:31,849 --> 00:47:37,188
I know so many of the generation
of post-Depression or Depression
774
00:47:37,313 --> 00:47:40,274
went to the movies.
That was a way to escape.
775
00:47:41,025 --> 00:47:44,070
And here was a little kid
who is soaking in these details.
776
00:47:44,153 --> 00:47:47,907
He can tell you, even though
there were no VCR tapes or DVD,
777
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:52,036
there was no way to remember
except for your imagination.
778
00:47:52,161 --> 00:47:55,122
And I know that Bob
could sit here today and say,
779
00:47:55,206 --> 00:47:57,833
"Betty Grable wore this,
and I loved how they did that,
780
00:47:57,917 --> 00:48:01,379
and there was this corsage and
then there was this neckline."
781
00:48:05,049 --> 00:48:07,802
♪ Put your arms around me, honey
Hold me tight ♪
782
00:48:07,885 --> 00:48:11,013
♪ Huddle up and cuddle up
With all your might ♪
783
00:48:11,138 --> 00:48:14,058
And so
there's something about,
when you're defining camp,
784
00:48:14,183 --> 00:48:16,936
I think you can't comment on it.
785
00:48:17,019 --> 00:48:18,354
You have to love it.
786
00:48:18,479 --> 00:48:23,651
And it has to come from
a place of deep knowledge.
787
00:48:25,611 --> 00:48:27,321
And it's why it appeals to us.
788
00:48:27,405 --> 00:48:31,534
It's emotional, because we see
that corsage or that neckline,
789
00:48:31,659 --> 00:48:34,453
and we think, "I can't tell you
that Betty Grable wore that
790
00:48:34,537 --> 00:48:38,290
in, you know, 1946 in a film."
791
00:48:38,374 --> 00:48:41,502
And yet, it resonates with me.
792
00:48:41,585 --> 00:48:44,547
It makes me feel happy.
It makes me actually emotional.
793
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:46,090
It makes me teary.
794
00:48:46,215 --> 00:48:47,550
There's something
about connecting
795
00:48:47,633 --> 00:48:52,388
with just cloth,
a story that somehow
796
00:48:52,513 --> 00:48:54,056
we all are carrying around,
797
00:48:54,181 --> 00:48:56,183
a history
that we're carrying around.
798
00:48:56,267 --> 00:49:00,980
Did your mother
notice that you were
finding it so fascinating?
799
00:49:01,063 --> 00:49:04,400
Uh, no, my mother
could never understand
800
00:49:04,483 --> 00:49:07,236
what I did for a living.
She just never did.
801
00:49:07,361 --> 00:49:08,863
I mean, she knew.
802
00:49:08,946 --> 00:49:11,615
And she liked being Bob Mackie's
mother, because that--
803
00:49:12,533 --> 00:49:15,119
But then she hated it if
somebody was friendly with her
804
00:49:15,244 --> 00:49:16,328
because she was.
805
00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:20,499
She couldn't quite
make up her mind, you know,
806
00:49:20,583 --> 00:49:22,168
because there was a time
807
00:49:22,251 --> 00:49:24,587
when, you know, I was doing
a lot of famous people,
808
00:49:24,712 --> 00:49:27,965
which made me better known
at the time.
809
00:49:28,048 --> 00:49:33,429
And, you know,
it's just kind of amazing
810
00:49:34,263 --> 00:49:39,310
how she wasn't interested
in that as a career.
811
00:49:39,435 --> 00:49:41,645
But she was never interested
in what I was doing.
812
00:49:41,770 --> 00:49:44,023
She was like a selfish woman,
813
00:49:44,106 --> 00:49:47,985
but, you know, took me places
that she knew I would like to go
814
00:49:48,110 --> 00:49:49,361
when we would visit.
815
00:49:49,445 --> 00:49:51,572
I actually lived with
my grandmother for years.
816
00:49:51,655 --> 00:49:54,158
And my mother
was like the Auntie Mame
817
00:49:54,241 --> 00:49:57,620
who would take you out for those
special things, but this way,
818
00:49:57,703 --> 00:50:00,956
she didn't have to deal
with the day-to-day things.
819
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:02,541
And she and my father,
I don't think
820
00:50:02,625 --> 00:50:04,585
they were ever
together that long.
821
00:50:04,668 --> 00:50:08,130
It was like--
Because he went off to the war.
822
00:50:08,214 --> 00:50:09,965
You know,
because I was born in '39.
823
00:50:10,090 --> 00:50:12,301
So then when he came
back from the war,
824
00:50:12,426 --> 00:50:14,637
I was so excited when
he came back from the war.
825
00:50:14,762 --> 00:50:18,307
I don't know. I was probably
6 or 7 at that point.
826
00:50:18,432 --> 00:50:22,269
And I remember seeing him come
on the Union Station in LA.
827
00:50:22,353 --> 00:50:25,689
And he was in
a whole Canadian uniform
828
00:50:25,814 --> 00:50:27,316
because he went back to Canada.
829
00:50:27,399 --> 00:50:30,361
That's where he went back
to join the Army.
830
00:50:30,486 --> 00:50:32,613
And he had a beret,
and a thing, and the stuff--
831
00:50:32,696 --> 00:50:34,490
And I thought,
"Oh, that's my dad."
832
00:50:34,573 --> 00:50:37,952
You know, I was so excited.
And then he wasn't--
833
00:50:38,035 --> 00:50:42,081
He really didn't wanna be--
He'd had a child earlier
834
00:50:42,164 --> 00:50:43,582
that he didn't
pay any attention to,
835
00:50:43,666 --> 00:50:46,168
and he wasn't
too interested in me either.
836
00:50:47,336 --> 00:50:49,129
So it was one of those.
837
00:50:49,213 --> 00:50:50,965
But did you love him?
838
00:50:51,048 --> 00:50:55,511
Um, well, I wanted to,
but I never really did.
839
00:50:56,345 --> 00:50:58,514
I just felt like
he didn't like me.
840
00:50:58,639 --> 00:51:00,975
And if he doesn't like me,
I'm not gonna like him.
841
00:51:01,058 --> 00:51:03,352
He couldn't
figure me out at all.
842
00:51:04,186 --> 00:51:07,523
Because he came from a place
of more of a machismo thing?
843
00:51:07,648 --> 00:51:13,362
Exactly, very machismo.
Very, "Yeah, big Chuck."
You know.
844
00:51:14,446 --> 00:51:18,158
Let me tell you, it's hard
if you're kind of strange child,
845
00:51:18,242 --> 00:51:20,035
and you're a little artistic,
and there are things
846
00:51:20,119 --> 00:51:23,664
that you wanna do
and nobody understands
847
00:51:23,747 --> 00:51:25,708
why you'd want to do that.
848
00:51:25,791 --> 00:51:29,044
Because they have
no conception of--
849
00:51:29,128 --> 00:51:31,380
You know,
the first time I told...
850
00:51:32,172 --> 00:51:35,551
I think I told an uncle
or one of my mother's boyfriends
851
00:51:35,634 --> 00:51:36,802
or something.
852
00:51:37,303 --> 00:51:40,055
"Well, Bobby, what do you
want to be when you grow up?"
853
00:51:40,139 --> 00:51:44,602
And I said, "Well, I'd like
to be a costume designer
on Broadway."
854
00:51:46,270 --> 00:51:49,565
♪ Do you believe in life
After love ♪
855
00:51:51,567 --> 00:51:55,613
♪ I can feel something
Inside me say ♪
856
00:51:55,738 --> 00:51:59,908
♪ I really don't think
You're strong enough ♪
857
00:52:00,784 --> 00:52:04,872
♪ Do you believe in life
After love ♪
858
00:52:26,727 --> 00:52:30,314
You know, like Ruth Gordon said
at the Oscars several years ago,
859
00:52:30,397 --> 00:52:33,108
this is very encouraging
for an 80-year-old.
860
00:52:33,233 --> 00:52:34,276
Thank you.
861
00:52:35,194 --> 00:52:36,278
Thank you so much.
862
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:58,467
You see what it is?
863
00:52:59,385 --> 00:53:01,470
Yeah. And then she says
kisses and loving,
864
00:53:01,595 --> 00:53:05,182
kisses, kisses, kisses,
in giant letters, me.
865
00:53:06,642 --> 00:53:08,477
Like there's anybody else.
866
00:53:08,894 --> 00:53:10,354
Bernadette Peters.
867
00:53:10,479 --> 00:53:12,564
- Here's Bernadette Peters.
- Hey.
868
00:53:14,817 --> 00:53:16,485
Oh, here's Carol.
869
00:53:16,568 --> 00:53:19,613
So they wrote, "Yippee, yippee,
clap, clap, clap, clap, clap."
870
00:53:19,697 --> 00:53:23,909
And then at the bottom,
she said, "Dust off
the mantelpiece."
871
00:53:24,576 --> 00:53:26,787
I was so thrilled
when he won the Tony.
872
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:28,288
- Yes.
- Oh, my gosh.
873
00:53:28,372 --> 00:53:29,540
You were watching
pretty intently?
874
00:53:29,665 --> 00:53:32,167
Oh, I was screaming.
Yeah. Yeah.
875
00:53:32,292 --> 00:53:35,295
Oh, I have a bone to pick...
876
00:53:36,839 --> 00:53:41,343
with the Academy Awards,
with the Academy Awards.
877
00:53:42,302 --> 00:53:46,724
He was nominated
for Pennies From Heaven .
878
00:54:12,499 --> 00:54:17,379
And that year, it was a
movie about the racing--
879
00:54:17,504 --> 00:54:19,256
Men, runners.
880
00:54:38,942 --> 00:54:40,736
Chariots of Fire won.
881
00:54:41,779 --> 00:54:43,697
That won for Best Costuming.
882
00:54:45,783 --> 00:54:47,910
All they did was have numbers.
883
00:54:48,452 --> 00:54:51,330
I mean, I was so angry. What?
884
00:54:51,413 --> 00:54:54,666
And you'd look at what Bob
did in Pennies from Heaven .
885
00:54:54,750 --> 00:54:56,335
He did the whole
Depression look
886
00:54:56,418 --> 00:54:58,462
and then all of the
musical stuff, and the--
887
00:54:58,587 --> 00:54:59,630
I mean...
888
00:55:00,589 --> 00:55:02,007
Chariots of Fire won.
889
00:55:03,300 --> 00:55:04,551
Crazy.
890
00:55:07,596 --> 00:55:09,348
I never thought about it.
891
00:55:09,973 --> 00:55:12,226
Who is the weirdest
one in your family?
892
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:13,310
No pressure.
893
00:55:13,685 --> 00:55:15,437
I better get the table top down.
894
00:55:15,562 --> 00:55:18,482
- No, but--
Think about people--
- I won't tell--
895
00:55:18,565 --> 00:55:21,318
It doesn't mean
you don't love them.
896
00:55:21,443 --> 00:55:22,945
- You're just--
- So true.
897
00:55:23,737 --> 00:55:25,364
- Yeah.
- Keep
drinking your wine.
898
00:55:25,447 --> 00:55:28,450
We'll find out some of
the other family members.
899
00:55:28,534 --> 00:55:30,285
Everybody always
thought I was weird.
900
00:55:30,410 --> 00:55:32,371
You were.
Weird is good.
901
00:55:32,454 --> 00:55:33,622
You were just talented.
902
00:55:33,705 --> 00:55:34,998
They'd just say,
"Oh, that's Bobby."
903
00:55:35,123 --> 00:55:36,500
Unique, different.
904
00:55:36,625 --> 00:55:38,377
- "Oh, Bobby. Oh, yeah, well"...
- Odd.
905
00:55:38,460 --> 00:55:40,504
Kira wouldn't call you weird.
She'd call you odd.
906
00:55:40,629 --> 00:55:41,672
Well, yeah.
907
00:55:41,797 --> 00:55:43,590
- I was odd.
- Odd.
908
00:55:44,883 --> 00:55:46,468
And now
how do you feel about that?
909
00:55:46,593 --> 00:55:48,637
Didn't you just have
a month of awards for--
910
00:55:48,762 --> 00:55:50,389
Yeah, but that-- But...
911
00:55:50,472 --> 00:55:53,976
- A lifetime of uniqueness.
- Odd sometimes helps.
912
00:55:55,352 --> 00:55:56,311
Yeah.
913
00:55:56,395 --> 00:55:57,688
You want to win the odd title?
914
00:55:57,813 --> 00:55:59,356
Is that what you're
doing right now?
915
00:55:59,481 --> 00:56:01,024
- You're doing--
- You're on your way.
916
00:56:01,149 --> 00:56:03,861
Yeah, she's trying.
917
00:56:03,986 --> 00:56:05,696
That's funny.
918
00:56:05,779 --> 00:56:08,657
What do you know
about those two little girls?
919
00:56:08,991 --> 00:56:10,409
I don't know so much.
920
00:56:10,492 --> 00:56:12,494
Joe is the man to go to
for that.
921
00:56:12,578 --> 00:56:13,871
I know that he sends them--
922
00:56:13,954 --> 00:56:16,290
They show me pictures
of the gifts and stuff
923
00:56:16,373 --> 00:56:17,875
that they send out to them,
but I've never met them.
924
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,668
I've seen pictures of them.
925
00:56:19,751 --> 00:56:23,338
I'm, like, thinking, "Do you
know that your grandfather's
926
00:56:23,422 --> 00:56:26,758
Bob Mackie? That you can come
to the office and try on gowns?"
927
00:56:26,842 --> 00:56:29,595
He could probably even
dress them for prom.
928
00:56:29,678 --> 00:56:31,430
- Or Halloween.
- Or Halloween.
929
00:56:31,513 --> 00:56:33,473
Or prom, in, like,
Bob Mackie couture.
930
00:56:33,557 --> 00:56:35,851
Like, they have no idea--
Or maybe they do,
931
00:56:35,934 --> 00:56:37,185
like, how lucky they are.
932
00:56:38,478 --> 00:56:42,399
He discovered
later in his life that
he had a granddaughter
933
00:56:42,524 --> 00:56:44,026
and two great granddaughters.
934
00:56:44,151 --> 00:56:45,903
And it was the most joyful,
935
00:56:46,028 --> 00:56:47,988
most emotional moment
in his life
936
00:56:48,071 --> 00:56:49,823
because I think
he went for so long
937
00:56:49,907 --> 00:56:52,451
without having immediate family.
938
00:56:52,534 --> 00:56:54,411
He's very close
with his ex-wife,
939
00:56:54,494 --> 00:56:57,539
who he maintains
a relationship with to this day.
940
00:56:57,915 --> 00:57:00,584
And to discover
that he had a granddaughter
941
00:57:00,709 --> 00:57:02,836
and two great granddaughters
is the greatest gift.
942
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:04,546
- Oh, toasting.
- Yes.
943
00:57:04,671 --> 00:57:06,089
- Be sure and look in the eye.
- Okay.
944
00:57:06,214 --> 00:57:07,674
All right,
I'm gonna make a round.
945
00:57:07,758 --> 00:57:10,469
- Just to my--
- To family and fun.
946
00:57:10,552 --> 00:57:12,846
Yay. Cheer, cheers.
947
00:57:12,930 --> 00:57:13,805
To Kira.
948
00:57:14,973 --> 00:57:17,684
My arm's not long enough. Okay.
949
00:57:17,768 --> 00:57:20,395
Cheers. Cheers, Kyla.
950
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:21,772
Kyla. Kyla, stop.
951
00:57:21,897 --> 00:57:23,065
- Here's to you.
- Cheers.
952
00:57:23,148 --> 00:57:25,567
- I've known you the longest.
- I know.
953
00:57:25,984 --> 00:57:27,152
A long time.
954
00:57:27,986 --> 00:57:29,571
Cheers.
955
00:57:29,655 --> 00:57:32,824
- How many years?
- Since I was 15.
956
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,494
- Fifteen?
- I was 15.
957
00:57:36,161 --> 00:57:38,121
- How old was I? 16?
- Yep.
958
00:57:39,748 --> 00:57:43,001
- So just do the math.
- Yep.
959
00:57:43,961 --> 00:57:46,838
- This is Daddy's fork.
- I have
to have tomatoes.
960
00:58:07,776 --> 00:58:09,945
Yeah, we have history.
961
00:58:10,028 --> 00:58:13,740
So we go way back, 60 years.
962
00:58:13,824 --> 00:58:15,867
Yeah we've known each
other a long time.
963
00:58:15,951 --> 00:58:17,619
So, Joe let me
know you discovered
964
00:58:17,744 --> 00:58:20,455
you had this new family
because of Robin, your son.
965
00:58:20,539 --> 00:58:21,957
Can you talk about Robin?
966
00:58:22,541 --> 00:58:24,626
- I can't.
- It's hard.
967
00:58:25,293 --> 00:58:28,714
It's, um... It's really hard.
968
00:58:35,971 --> 00:58:39,016
- I won't get through it.
- No, me either.
969
00:58:49,526 --> 00:58:52,487
- Good morning.
- Good morning.
How are you?
970
00:58:52,612 --> 00:58:54,448
Hey, I'm great.
971
00:58:54,531 --> 00:58:59,995
So listen, I have one specific
question for you, which is--
972
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:01,496
Okay.
973
00:59:01,621 --> 00:59:04,833
I have broached
the subject twice with Bob
974
00:59:04,958 --> 00:59:07,836
when it comes to his son, Robin.
975
00:59:07,919 --> 00:59:11,048
And I think people
are very interested in Bob
976
00:59:11,173 --> 00:59:16,219
and how he became this
costume-designer extraordinaire,
977
00:59:16,303 --> 00:59:22,225
but also, what makes him tick
and the origins of things.
978
00:59:22,350 --> 00:59:25,812
And I think the impact
of Robin on his life,
979
00:59:25,896 --> 00:59:28,148
I just want to make sure, and
I know it's sensitive for Bob,
980
00:59:28,231 --> 00:59:30,942
obviously, from his answers
that he's given me,
981
00:59:31,568 --> 00:59:33,028
that he kind of shuts it down.
982
00:59:33,153 --> 00:59:37,741
But I'm hoping that you could
shed some light for myself,
983
00:59:37,866 --> 00:59:40,202
but also the people
who are gonna watch this film,
984
00:59:40,327 --> 00:59:42,996
about what exactly took place,
985
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:44,873
and give us
a little more detail.
986
00:59:44,956 --> 00:59:46,208
I didn't know Robin
987
00:59:46,291 --> 00:59:49,586
because he died
before I came around.
988
00:59:50,003 --> 00:59:52,047
He died in 1993.
989
00:59:52,130 --> 00:59:56,218
And I know that he is very
sensitive about Robin
990
00:59:56,343 --> 01:00:00,972
because it was such
a terrible end to a young life
when he died.
991
01:00:01,056 --> 01:00:02,599
It was in all the newspapers
992
01:00:02,682 --> 01:00:05,685
that Bob's son had died,
and very publicly,
993
01:00:05,769 --> 01:00:09,189
that he died of
an HIV-related illness.
994
01:00:09,272 --> 01:00:11,691
And then what did
Robin do for a living?
995
01:00:12,067 --> 01:00:16,238
Robin was a makeup artist,
and rather successful.
996
01:00:17,697 --> 01:00:21,076
Of course, again,
in the shadow of Bob.
997
01:00:21,201 --> 01:00:25,914
And then ultimately, when he
passed away, it was HIV--
998
01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:30,710
Robin had a drug problem,
and they were all aware of it.
999
01:00:30,794 --> 01:00:32,921
And Robin had a lot of
girlfriends at the time,
1000
01:00:33,046 --> 01:00:36,049
and they were all taking
care of him when he got sick.
1001
01:00:36,758 --> 01:00:39,761
Oh, so it came from
some sort of intravenous drug?
1002
01:00:40,345 --> 01:00:42,264
- Use, correct.
- Yeah, yeah.
1003
01:00:42,389 --> 01:00:44,057
And of course,
that was devastating.
1004
01:00:44,141 --> 01:00:45,767
It was such a young life.
1005
01:00:45,892 --> 01:00:48,145
And you think about Bob's career
was really taking off
1006
01:00:48,270 --> 01:00:49,938
in his late 20s and early 30,
1007
01:00:50,021 --> 01:00:52,315
and here is a guy
who never even had a chance.
1008
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:53,692
And that stuck.
1009
01:00:53,775 --> 01:00:55,193
It's stuck with him to this day,
1010
01:00:55,277 --> 01:00:58,321
he still talks about
what a difficult life
1011
01:00:58,446 --> 01:00:59,865
that was for Robin.
1012
01:01:06,288 --> 01:01:10,333
When I was
in eighth grade,
my aunt came over,
1013
01:01:10,417 --> 01:01:12,752
and she brought
a People magazine article
1014
01:01:12,836 --> 01:01:17,340
that had an article about Bob
when Robin had passed away.
1015
01:01:17,424 --> 01:01:19,968
I knew my dad wasn't
my biological father,
1016
01:01:20,093 --> 01:01:22,304
but I didn't know anything
else really, otherwise.
1017
01:01:22,429 --> 01:01:24,723
We just didn't talk
about it too much.
1018
01:01:24,806 --> 01:01:26,975
Um, so my aunt
shared the article,
1019
01:01:27,058 --> 01:01:30,187
and my mom said,
"Yeah, this is about your dad
and your biological grandpa."
1020
01:01:30,312 --> 01:01:34,774
And, oh, I'm an awkward
13-year-old who didn't really
1021
01:01:34,858 --> 01:01:37,402
know what to say or do
about it and didn't want my...
1022
01:01:37,986 --> 01:01:39,196
I thought it was really cool
1023
01:01:39,321 --> 01:01:40,822
because it was
in People magazine.
1024
01:01:40,947 --> 01:01:42,616
So of course, I took
the magazine to school
1025
01:01:42,699 --> 01:01:44,201
and showed all of my friends
and things like that.
1026
01:01:44,284 --> 01:01:47,204
But I never really talked
too much to my parents about it
1027
01:01:47,329 --> 01:01:49,664
because I figured
it probably had
1028
01:01:49,789 --> 01:01:52,125
to be more of an awkward
time in my mom's life.
1029
01:01:52,209 --> 01:01:53,877
And we talked about it
a little bit then,
1030
01:01:54,002 --> 01:01:56,213
and she showed me
prom pictures
1031
01:01:56,296 --> 01:01:59,674
of her and Rob
going to prom together,
1032
01:01:59,799 --> 01:02:02,010
and a little bit about him,
and cut to--
1033
01:02:02,135 --> 01:02:06,139
I'm thinking about it every
once in a while throughout life.
1034
01:02:07,015 --> 01:02:10,018
My-- When I got married to Troy,
my mother-in-law was like,
1035
01:02:10,101 --> 01:02:12,395
"You have to contact
your grandpa. He can
make you a wedding dress."
1036
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:16,358
I'm like, "That is not
really how I want to start..."
1037
01:02:16,483 --> 01:02:19,152
- What a lovely idea.
- My-- Yeah, like, no.
1038
01:02:19,778 --> 01:02:22,906
Bob's granddaughter
wrote a letter to the office
and asked us,
1039
01:02:23,740 --> 01:02:25,367
essentially, she said,
1040
01:02:26,409 --> 01:02:28,203
"I'm Bob's granddaughter,
1041
01:02:28,286 --> 01:02:29,871
and I really don't
want anything.
1042
01:02:29,996 --> 01:02:32,666
I just want to know him.
I'd like to meet him,
1043
01:02:32,749 --> 01:02:35,001
and I have a daughter
that I'd like him to know."
1044
01:02:35,085 --> 01:02:37,671
And she sent photographs.
1045
01:02:37,754 --> 01:02:42,717
And the photographs looked an
awful lot like Bob's son, Robin.
1046
01:02:42,801 --> 01:02:44,719
And so there was
an immediate connection
1047
01:02:44,844 --> 01:02:46,972
because she looked
like Robin so much.
1048
01:02:47,055 --> 01:02:49,140
Yeah, well,
the minute I got the letter,
1049
01:02:49,224 --> 01:02:51,935
I went, "Oh, my God.
This is crazy.
1050
01:02:52,060 --> 01:02:53,061
I mean, really?
1051
01:02:53,770 --> 01:02:55,063
- Are we sure?"
- Yeah.
1052
01:02:55,188 --> 01:02:58,024
You know?
And then I call Lulu right away
1053
01:02:58,108 --> 01:02:59,776
and I said--
Because we're close.
1054
01:02:59,901 --> 01:03:01,027
We talk all the time.
1055
01:03:01,111 --> 01:03:05,991
And it's kind of like
you just hope...
1056
01:03:06,491 --> 01:03:08,994
- You don't know what to think.
- I can imagine.
1057
01:03:09,077 --> 01:03:12,455
Especially when you're out there
and you're on TV,
1058
01:03:12,580 --> 01:03:14,040
and they're talking...
1059
01:03:14,165 --> 01:03:15,250
Who knows?
1060
01:03:15,375 --> 01:03:18,837
I mean, I just went,
"Oh, my gosh."
1061
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:20,046
But not exactly.
1062
01:03:20,130 --> 01:03:21,298
But yet,
there's such a resemblance.
1063
01:03:21,423 --> 01:03:22,966
There's such a
resemblance that--
1064
01:03:23,049 --> 01:03:25,760
- No, but I mean, it was just--
- It was like, wow.
1065
01:03:25,885 --> 01:03:27,095
Oh, okay, yeah.
1066
01:03:27,220 --> 01:03:28,263
I just said to her,
I said, "I don't know.
1067
01:03:28,388 --> 01:03:29,764
I think it's pretty good."
1068
01:03:29,848 --> 01:03:31,766
It's wonderful,
because for us,
1069
01:03:31,891 --> 01:03:35,061
we have this extension
of our family now,
1070
01:03:35,145 --> 01:03:36,271
and it'll go on.
1071
01:03:36,813 --> 01:03:39,274
I'm still shaking
my head at times.
1072
01:03:39,357 --> 01:03:43,445
I go, "Wow,
this is just a miracle."
1073
01:03:55,373 --> 01:03:57,917
And here's a van.
But there's someone, they have--
1074
01:03:58,001 --> 01:03:59,419
Someone must have
a massive costume.
1075
01:03:59,502 --> 01:04:02,005
- Maybe Cher's in there.
- No.
1076
01:04:02,130 --> 01:04:03,423
We're smuggling her in back.
1077
01:04:03,548 --> 01:04:05,008
We're smuggling her.
1078
01:04:05,091 --> 01:04:06,384
What is she wearing
tonight, Bob?
1079
01:04:06,468 --> 01:04:07,802
- Do you know?
- Because it goes with it.
1080
01:04:07,886 --> 01:04:09,220
- Yeah.
- That's perfect.
1081
01:04:09,304 --> 01:04:10,764
Well, I know what
she's supposed to be wearing.
1082
01:04:10,847 --> 01:04:12,140
She could change her mind,
I suppose.
1083
01:04:12,265 --> 01:04:16,019
She's wearing--
She's doing a couple of--
1084
01:04:16,144 --> 01:04:18,813
Actually, only one ABBA song.
1085
01:04:18,938 --> 01:04:21,316
And she's
in an ABBA-esque outfit
1086
01:04:21,399 --> 01:04:23,568
that she'll be using
in her act later.
1087
01:04:24,152 --> 01:04:25,445
And it's purplish.
1088
01:04:42,337 --> 01:04:44,506
So do you ever
get nervous on how
it's going to come off?
1089
01:04:44,631 --> 01:04:46,049
Oh, I do.
1090
01:04:46,174 --> 01:04:47,467
- Really?
- Yes.
1091
01:04:47,550 --> 01:04:49,260
- Okay, there it is.
- Yes.
1092
01:04:49,344 --> 01:04:51,846
- So there's nerves.
- I get very nervous about it,
1093
01:04:51,971 --> 01:04:53,348
because I want it always
to be perfect,
1094
01:04:53,473 --> 01:04:57,352
and some people, you know,
nothing's ever perfect.
1095
01:04:58,561 --> 01:05:00,188
So, what is perfect
in your mind?
1096
01:05:00,313 --> 01:05:02,065
When you see it,
what does it need to do?
1097
01:05:02,148 --> 01:05:06,194
That she looks exactly what we
intended to have her look like.
1098
01:05:06,277 --> 01:05:07,404
You know, that's all.
1099
01:05:12,325 --> 01:05:18,873
He loves
going through beads
and sequins and fabric.
1100
01:05:18,957 --> 01:05:21,000
And he won't stop.
1101
01:05:22,544 --> 01:05:24,379
I said I want
this new ABBA dress
1102
01:05:24,462 --> 01:05:27,966
and I don't want it
to look like this or that.
1103
01:05:28,049 --> 01:05:30,051
I don't want to
look like an ABBA girl,
1104
01:05:30,135 --> 01:05:34,222
but I want to look like
something from that time period.
1105
01:05:36,641 --> 01:05:40,019
And Bob was such a genius,
1106
01:05:40,103 --> 01:05:41,271
and he sent me a sketch,
1107
01:05:41,396 --> 01:05:43,022
and two of my friends
were with me.
1108
01:05:43,106 --> 01:05:45,233
They went,
"He has still got it."
1109
01:05:47,110 --> 01:05:50,113
So when
you were younger,
what were you watching
1110
01:05:50,238 --> 01:05:52,574
that you kind of
were saying to yourself,
1111
01:05:52,699 --> 01:05:54,451
"Oh, I wish I could dress like
that someday"?
1112
01:05:54,576 --> 01:05:56,619
What actresses were you
admiring at the time?
1113
01:05:56,744 --> 01:05:59,622
Well, I used to watch
black-and-white movies
1114
01:05:59,747 --> 01:06:01,249
with my mom.
1115
01:06:01,374 --> 01:06:06,254
And so I would see, like,
Carole Lombard and Dietrich
1116
01:06:06,379 --> 01:06:11,009
and Bette Davis
and Ginger Rogers, who I loved.
1117
01:06:11,092 --> 01:06:13,344
And I didn't just
admire the women
1118
01:06:13,428 --> 01:06:15,305
that were dressed beautifully.
1119
01:06:15,430 --> 01:06:18,141
I admired the women
who were strong.
1120
01:06:18,224 --> 01:06:21,227
And that's what
you were like when you
put on a Bob Mackie?
1121
01:06:21,311 --> 01:06:23,897
Because he has drawn
a lot of inspiration
1122
01:06:23,980 --> 01:06:26,941
from theater and a lot of the
costumes that came before,
1123
01:06:27,025 --> 01:06:29,319
do you feel like when you
put on those clothes,
1124
01:06:29,402 --> 01:06:33,281
you're harkening back, but it's
also looking forward as well?
1125
01:06:37,994 --> 01:06:40,914
I never was making a statement.
1126
01:06:40,997 --> 01:06:45,084
I just loved wearing
beautiful clothing.
1127
01:06:45,168 --> 01:06:47,462
And I was really poor
when I was a kid,
1128
01:06:47,545 --> 01:06:53,134
so it was a dream come true,
like Cinderella all the time.
1129
01:07:01,643 --> 01:07:03,520
- Go for it.
- Go for what?
1130
01:07:03,645 --> 01:07:05,188
Walk into the studio.
1131
01:07:06,147 --> 01:07:08,441
You would go
arm-in-arm like that?
1132
01:07:16,658 --> 01:07:20,328
I met Bob 1982.
1133
01:07:21,037 --> 01:07:23,581
Don't come out.
1134
01:07:23,665 --> 01:07:25,375
Since I started,
1135
01:07:26,668 --> 01:07:28,169
he worked with me.
1136
01:07:29,379 --> 01:07:32,257
And we understand each other.
1137
01:07:33,049 --> 01:07:35,176
- How were we?
- All good.
1138
01:07:46,271 --> 01:07:48,356
What do you
understand about him?
1139
01:07:49,399 --> 01:07:57,323
I understand his color sense,
his imagination.
1140
01:07:57,699 --> 01:08:01,494
And he trusts me because he
knows that I understand.
1141
01:08:01,578 --> 01:08:03,580
That's the thing, you know,
in between us.
1142
01:08:03,663 --> 01:08:05,665
So there only has to be
a few words between you
1143
01:08:05,748 --> 01:08:07,542
to understand
what the direction is?
1144
01:08:07,625 --> 01:08:08,751
Yeah.
1145
01:08:08,876 --> 01:08:10,253
And I should have
brought you one today.
1146
01:08:10,378 --> 01:08:11,588
We turned those...
1147
01:08:11,671 --> 01:08:13,256
- Oh, the robes?
- ...and they look beautiful.
1148
01:08:13,339 --> 01:08:15,675
- They look--
- And how was the fringes?
1149
01:08:15,758 --> 01:08:17,343
- Perfect.
- What do you call it?
1150
01:08:17,427 --> 01:08:18,720
- Perfect.
- Okay.
1151
01:08:18,803 --> 01:08:20,430
And we pulled the bottom in
just a little bit.
1152
01:08:20,555 --> 01:08:22,056
So it goes--
It doesn't go straight.
1153
01:08:22,181 --> 01:08:23,558
- It comes together.
- It comes together. Yeah.
1154
01:08:23,641 --> 01:08:25,226
Oh, perfect.
1155
01:08:25,643 --> 01:08:30,231
See, they're... They're amazing.
1156
01:08:30,732 --> 01:08:32,275
He's the only one.
1157
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:34,027
He's the only one.
1158
01:08:34,110 --> 01:08:37,572
I don't want to hurt the other
designers that I work with.
1159
01:08:37,655 --> 01:08:38,740
They know too.
1160
01:08:38,865 --> 01:08:39,782
So...
1161
01:08:40,700 --> 01:08:42,201
What do you mean
he's the only one?
1162
01:08:42,285 --> 01:08:45,038
He's the only one.
He wants something,
1163
01:08:45,121 --> 01:08:46,372
he knows what he wants.
1164
01:08:46,456 --> 01:08:53,171
He sketches
and he puts on his patterns.
1165
01:08:53,713 --> 01:08:58,426
And the... finish
becomes the exact same thing
1166
01:08:58,551 --> 01:08:59,594
that he drew.
1167
01:08:59,719 --> 01:09:01,804
- So he's that precise?
- Yes.
1168
01:09:02,764 --> 01:09:04,766
And I have no problem
working with me.
1169
01:09:04,891 --> 01:09:07,477
And he's the only one
who can do that, really?
1170
01:09:08,269 --> 01:09:14,692
Yeah. He's the only one
who does this, you know, detail.
1171
01:09:14,776 --> 01:09:17,862
He doesn't think of it
as a dying art. I mean,
1172
01:09:18,404 --> 01:09:20,740
Bob thinks that's the way
you make beautiful clothes.
1173
01:09:20,823 --> 01:09:23,785
Hand-beading and embroidery,
even machine embroidery.
1174
01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:26,746
But those techniques
are things that he learned,
1175
01:09:26,829 --> 01:09:29,290
and they are so beautiful,
1176
01:09:29,415 --> 01:09:32,085
he thinks that we should
continue using those methods.
1177
01:09:32,168 --> 01:09:36,464
The hand-beading is a process
now that can be done in India.
1178
01:09:36,547 --> 01:09:37,840
It can be done
in other countries
1179
01:09:37,965 --> 01:09:39,467
that know how to do that.
1180
01:09:39,592 --> 01:09:42,178
But for him, having the control
1181
01:09:42,303 --> 01:09:44,222
over the placement
of the embroidery
1182
01:09:44,305 --> 01:09:45,848
and the placement
of his drawing,
1183
01:09:45,973 --> 01:09:48,226
a lot of pattern makers
figure out
1184
01:09:48,309 --> 01:09:49,727
where the embroidery
is gonna go.
1185
01:09:49,811 --> 01:09:52,730
Bob insists
on placing the paisley
1186
01:09:52,814 --> 01:09:54,399
or placing the flower,
1187
01:09:54,482 --> 01:09:56,275
whatever it is
we're embroidering.
1188
01:09:56,359 --> 01:09:58,361
He figures out the scale
and the size of that.
1189
01:09:58,486 --> 01:10:01,739
That's as important to him
as the fit of the clothes.
1190
01:10:01,823 --> 01:10:05,618
She showed us
in her studio how...
1191
01:10:07,453 --> 01:10:11,833
the sketches that you still do,
the intricacy of the sketch.
1192
01:10:11,916 --> 01:10:13,459
Right?
1193
01:10:13,543 --> 01:10:15,336
She said all the other
designers, they don't even...
1194
01:10:15,420 --> 01:10:16,587
They can't do that.
1195
01:10:16,671 --> 01:10:18,840
- Well, they don't do it.
- They don't do it.
1196
01:10:18,923 --> 01:10:20,550
It's not
as simple as that.
1197
01:10:20,633 --> 01:10:22,927
- You're an architect.
- No, but I'm a control freak.
1198
01:10:23,845 --> 01:10:26,139
- I can't help it.
- There it is.
1199
01:10:26,222 --> 01:10:27,682
That's the understatement
of the week.
1200
01:10:27,765 --> 01:10:30,810
That's the meaning that
whatever he has in his mind,
1201
01:10:30,893 --> 01:10:34,647
he wants to get it out
the way he wants to.
1202
01:10:35,231 --> 01:10:36,733
- I mean--
- Nothing wrong with that.
1203
01:10:36,816 --> 01:10:39,235
There's nothing wrong with it.
It's not the control freak.
1204
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:41,404
It's the way he wants it.
1205
01:10:41,529 --> 01:10:42,697
And we do it.
1206
01:10:43,489 --> 01:10:44,866
That's the secret.
1207
01:10:44,991 --> 01:10:48,536
But nothing wrong
with doing things right.
1208
01:10:48,661 --> 01:10:49,704
Exactly.
1209
01:10:51,497 --> 01:10:56,836
The actual craft
of making it counts
how much in each--
1210
01:10:56,919 --> 01:10:58,546
Oh, it means everything.
1211
01:10:59,005 --> 01:11:01,549
You can make the most beautiful
sketches in the world,
1212
01:11:01,632 --> 01:11:04,469
and if it's not made right,
if it doesn't really fit,
1213
01:11:04,552 --> 01:11:08,181
it's not finished properly,
and it doesn't move properly,
1214
01:11:08,264 --> 01:11:10,475
it's not good.
1215
01:11:10,933 --> 01:11:12,393
And that happens.
1216
01:11:12,477 --> 01:11:14,228
There are a lot of people
out there making costumes
1217
01:11:14,353 --> 01:11:15,605
that aren't very good at it,
1218
01:11:15,730 --> 01:11:17,815
and a lot of designers
that don't know anything
1219
01:11:17,899 --> 01:11:19,817
about how to do it.
1220
01:11:20,443 --> 01:11:22,445
That, to me,
is the scariest part,
1221
01:11:22,570 --> 01:11:27,450
that they can be in a career
for decades and never--
1222
01:11:27,533 --> 01:11:31,329
They just sort of drop off
the sketch and come back
when it's finished.
1223
01:11:31,746 --> 01:11:33,539
That's disaster.
1224
01:11:33,623 --> 01:11:37,835
It's not easy to just imagine.
1225
01:11:37,919 --> 01:11:42,048
He gets the material
and he draws.
1226
01:11:42,965 --> 01:11:45,760
He has the sequin,
he has the rhinestones,
1227
01:11:45,843 --> 01:11:49,514
he has the beads,
and he puts them together.
1228
01:11:49,597 --> 01:11:52,975
He has the imagination.
He does it.
1229
01:12:05,488 --> 01:12:07,490
They did-- They copied the...
1230
01:12:08,449 --> 01:12:11,369
I don't know. I'm going
to show you the picture.
1231
01:12:11,452 --> 01:12:12,703
It's a Halloween costume.
1232
01:12:12,787 --> 01:12:14,288
You see, there,
you really can see that--
1233
01:12:14,372 --> 01:12:15,748
...photograph.
There you go.
1234
01:12:16,999 --> 01:12:19,961
So all
of the women behind
1235
01:12:20,086 --> 01:12:22,839
the beautiful outfits are...
1236
01:12:23,881 --> 01:12:25,800
- Hold on, please.
- Armenians.
1237
01:12:27,385 --> 01:12:32,640
I have to say, I don't know
how Bob does it.
1238
01:12:32,723 --> 01:12:35,893
I hate designing costumes
for people.
1239
01:12:35,977 --> 01:12:37,562
I do it.
1240
01:12:37,645 --> 01:12:40,481
In fact, there are several
people I do it for quite often.
1241
01:12:40,857 --> 01:12:42,275
And there are people
1242
01:12:42,358 --> 01:12:43,609
that I've developed
a relationship with.
1243
01:12:43,693 --> 01:12:45,278
So maybe it was
like this for Bob.
1244
01:12:45,361 --> 01:12:46,654
But the reason I don't like it
1245
01:12:46,779 --> 01:12:48,823
is it's always been
so hard for me
1246
01:12:48,948 --> 01:12:52,493
to deal with the personalities
because I'm very dictatorial.
1247
01:12:52,618 --> 01:12:54,871
And you have to imagine
that fitting room
1248
01:12:54,996 --> 01:12:56,956
was not always just a love fest.
1249
01:12:57,039 --> 01:13:00,793
That there were times
when there was negotiation
1250
01:13:00,877 --> 01:13:02,545
and maybe bad behavior.
1251
01:13:02,670 --> 01:13:05,548
"Well, I'm not sure I like that.
Oh, yeah, yeah."
1252
01:13:05,631 --> 01:13:09,343
But there's always
that customer who's not sure,
1253
01:13:09,427 --> 01:13:10,553
and, "Are you sure?"
1254
01:13:10,678 --> 01:13:12,054
And then they call
the manager in,
1255
01:13:12,179 --> 01:13:14,849
and then they call the husband
or the wife or whatever.
1256
01:13:14,974 --> 01:13:16,851
I don't want to work
with people like that.
1257
01:13:16,934 --> 01:13:18,436
They have to trust me.
1258
01:13:18,519 --> 01:13:19,979
If they don't trust me,
I'm not interested.
1259
01:13:20,062 --> 01:13:21,689
What are they trusting?
What are they--
1260
01:13:21,814 --> 01:13:24,525
They trust that I'll do
the right thing for them
1261
01:13:24,609 --> 01:13:26,444
and I'll make them look good.
1262
01:13:26,527 --> 01:13:28,070
But they're always
questioning everything.
1263
01:13:28,195 --> 01:13:30,323
From what Bob has
shared with me,
1264
01:13:30,406 --> 01:13:33,326
he often says Barbie
is his favorite client.
1265
01:13:33,409 --> 01:13:34,744
Like, you know,
she doesn't complain.
1266
01:13:34,827 --> 01:13:37,914
If he sticks a pin in her,
she won't say ouch.
1267
01:13:44,045 --> 01:13:46,881
He's done almost
60 Barbie dolls for us,
1268
01:13:46,964 --> 01:13:48,549
including one-of-a-kinds.
1269
01:13:49,133 --> 01:13:53,471
He loves kind of taking Barbie
to new, over-the-top places
1270
01:13:53,554 --> 01:13:55,556
that no one else has
taken her before.
1271
01:13:59,018 --> 01:14:00,561
Within the collector community,
1272
01:14:00,645 --> 01:14:03,689
I think the response
was really exciting to see this.
1273
01:14:03,773 --> 01:14:06,943
You know, Bob Mackie put
his signature style on Barbie.
1274
01:14:09,987 --> 01:14:13,074
Please stop staring.
Yes, it's Cher.
1275
01:14:16,077 --> 01:14:18,412
Okay, that's it. Nothing for us.
1276
01:14:18,496 --> 01:14:19,789
This Cher thing
is out of control.
1277
01:14:19,872 --> 01:14:23,000
How the Cher and
Will and Grace happened,
1278
01:14:23,084 --> 01:14:25,378
I can't say for certain,
1279
01:14:25,461 --> 01:14:27,922
but, I mean,
I'm really glad it did.
1280
01:14:28,005 --> 01:14:31,008
I think it was such a big moment
in pop culture.
1281
01:14:31,092 --> 01:14:33,844
You know, dude,
it is a little weird
that you're talking to my doll.
1282
01:14:40,476 --> 01:14:43,604
I don't think I need a drag
queen to define normal behavior.
1283
01:14:47,775 --> 01:14:48,776
But I will say this.
1284
01:14:48,859 --> 01:14:50,277
The look is flawless.
1285
01:14:53,114 --> 01:14:54,198
Whatever.
1286
01:14:55,032 --> 01:14:57,660
Ooh. Working the attitude.
1287
01:14:58,744 --> 01:14:59,912
Okay, you're good.
1288
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:02,707
I've had a lot of practice.
1289
01:15:04,625 --> 01:15:07,962
Hey, hey, hey. You're not
that great, Mr. Sister.
1290
01:15:11,549 --> 01:15:14,218
All right?
I do a better Cher than you.
1291
01:15:17,054 --> 01:15:18,556
You think so?
1292
01:15:22,059 --> 01:15:25,062
Actually, it's,
"You think so-ho?"
1293
01:15:43,164 --> 01:15:46,709
Tina Turner,
Bette Midler, Cher.
1294
01:15:46,834 --> 01:15:48,669
I mean, these are
the divas, right?
1295
01:15:48,753 --> 01:15:50,546
- Diana Ross.
- Diana Ross.
1296
01:15:50,671 --> 01:15:53,841
She does everything.
You know, it isn't just--
1297
01:15:53,966 --> 01:15:56,010
The dress doesn't count.
It's who wears the dress.
1298
01:15:56,135 --> 01:15:58,596
I want to see her
in that fabulous dress.
1299
01:15:58,679 --> 01:16:00,848
How do you feel in
a Bob Mackie dress?
1300
01:16:01,932 --> 01:16:03,851
And how do you keep
that stylish figure?
1301
01:16:03,976 --> 01:16:05,186
Thank you very much.
1302
01:16:05,311 --> 01:16:06,854
- You still got it.
- Thank you very much.
1303
01:16:06,979 --> 01:16:09,690
I'm not sure
that I keep that stylish figure.
1304
01:16:09,815 --> 01:16:12,860
This native Californian,
Mr. Bob Mackie,
1305
01:16:12,943 --> 01:16:16,113
honed his exquisite
sense of glamour
1306
01:16:16,739 --> 01:16:20,034
and theatricality
into an art form.
1307
01:16:21,035 --> 01:16:25,873
No one does what Mackie does
the way Mackie does it.
1308
01:16:26,582 --> 01:16:30,044
The secret of building
a garment to perfection
1309
01:16:30,169 --> 01:16:33,756
is something
I have come to long ago,
1310
01:16:33,881 --> 01:16:36,509
come to love and respect.
1311
01:16:36,592 --> 01:16:41,555
The body is transformed
under his guidance.
1312
01:16:41,639 --> 01:16:43,891
♪ Every day ♪
1313
01:16:44,016 --> 01:16:46,727
♪ -But I look ♪
♪ -And I know ♪
1314
01:16:47,603 --> 01:16:50,940
What's the secret with
all these women, these divas?
1315
01:16:51,065 --> 01:16:57,071
Well, I'm very careful
about making them
1316
01:16:57,154 --> 01:16:58,739
what I think is good, you know,
1317
01:16:58,864 --> 01:17:00,825
what looks flattering,
very often.
1318
01:17:00,908 --> 01:17:02,535
And you see them
on their own sometimes
1319
01:17:02,618 --> 01:17:04,870
and you go,
"They don't do that."
1320
01:17:05,371 --> 01:17:07,331
You know,
just where you put things.
1321
01:17:07,915 --> 01:17:11,919
Kind of proportion
and placement is everything
1322
01:17:12,044 --> 01:17:14,130
- if you know what I mean.
- Yeah.
1323
01:17:25,307 --> 01:17:27,184
Oh, that feels so good to me.
1324
01:17:27,768 --> 01:17:29,311
I wish you could feel it too.
1325
01:17:30,020 --> 01:17:32,356
Listen, let me
tell you about it.
1326
01:17:33,941 --> 01:17:35,776
She was in Hollywood
1327
01:17:35,901 --> 01:17:37,945
and she was appearing
as a guest star by herself.
1328
01:17:38,070 --> 01:17:39,572
And I go, "What's going on?"
1329
01:17:39,655 --> 01:17:42,116
Evidently, she had left Ike
at that point.
1330
01:17:42,241 --> 01:17:46,245
And she was hiding out
from Ike and moving from hotel
1331
01:17:46,328 --> 01:17:50,249
to hotel with her assistant
and just doing
1332
01:17:50,332 --> 01:17:52,710
these guest shots on
The Sonny and Cher Show,
1333
01:17:52,793 --> 01:17:54,253
and The Cher Show
and different things.
1334
01:17:54,336 --> 01:17:57,464
And she was trying
to make a career for herself.
1335
01:17:58,841 --> 01:18:00,384
♪ If I can't ask you ♪
1336
01:18:01,969 --> 01:18:04,638
♪ Shame, shame, shame, shame ♪
1337
01:18:04,763 --> 01:18:06,140
♪ Shame, shame, shame ♪
1338
01:18:06,223 --> 01:18:07,349
♪ Shame on you ♪
1339
01:18:08,058 --> 01:18:09,059
♪ If I can't ask you ♪
1340
01:18:09,143 --> 01:18:10,769
And then she got to know me
1341
01:18:10,853 --> 01:18:13,647
because I started doing things
on those variety shows
1342
01:18:13,731 --> 01:18:15,149
and dressing her,
1343
01:18:15,232 --> 01:18:17,318
and she kind of goes, "Oh,
somebody actually does this."
1344
01:18:22,364 --> 01:18:25,326
♪ Music making in my bed ♪
1345
01:18:25,451 --> 01:18:27,828
♪ Let the music ♪
1346
01:18:27,912 --> 01:18:30,331
She would buy cheap
evening gowns in Paris
1347
01:18:30,456 --> 01:18:32,124
at these little shops.
1348
01:18:32,208 --> 01:18:35,127
Not great, but just something
she liked or liked the fabric.
1349
01:18:35,211 --> 01:18:36,754
And she'd bring it in.
1350
01:18:36,837 --> 01:18:38,339
She'd say, "Can we make this
look like a cave woman?"
1351
01:18:38,464 --> 01:18:40,007
And I said, "Sure."
1352
01:18:40,090 --> 01:18:41,300
And I'd put it on her
and I'd just start cutting.
1353
01:18:41,383 --> 01:18:42,843
"Can I go a little higher here?"
1354
01:18:42,968 --> 01:18:44,261
"Yeah, sure."
1355
01:18:44,345 --> 01:18:46,138
- "Can I pull it over here?"
- "Yeah," and I'd pin it.
1356
01:18:46,222 --> 01:18:51,018
And we would redo these funny,
inexpensive evening dresses
1357
01:18:51,143 --> 01:18:53,187
into Tina Turner outfits.
1358
01:18:54,355 --> 01:18:58,692
♪ About the feeling
Let it come through ♪
1359
01:18:58,817 --> 01:19:00,319
♪ Shake your music maker ♪
1360
01:19:00,402 --> 01:19:02,321
♪ Shake it, shake it, shake it ♪
1361
01:19:02,404 --> 01:19:03,989
♪ Shake your music maker ♪
1362
01:19:04,073 --> 01:19:07,201
And of course,
the legs. She's a little--
1363
01:19:07,284 --> 01:19:10,871
She has a shorter torso
and long, long legs.
1364
01:19:10,996 --> 01:19:12,748
And when she was younger,
1365
01:19:12,831 --> 01:19:16,001
the legs were long and slender
and muscular and beautiful.
1366
01:19:16,085 --> 01:19:18,212
And they put those
high heels on.
1367
01:19:18,337 --> 01:19:20,297
And she's fun. She's really fun.
1368
01:19:20,381 --> 01:19:24,009
And she's-- She'll, you know,
have a couple glasses of wine
1369
01:19:24,093 --> 01:19:26,303
and tell you
the best stories ever.
1370
01:19:26,387 --> 01:19:28,055
I loved watching her backstage.
1371
01:19:28,180 --> 01:19:31,767
She'd throw a couple of Tylenols
in and put her high heels on
1372
01:19:31,892 --> 01:19:34,895
and hit the stage.
It was just crazy.
1373
01:19:38,315 --> 01:19:41,235
Her name is... Proud...
1374
01:19:41,318 --> 01:19:43,988
The last tour she did,
I got very involved.
1375
01:19:44,071 --> 01:19:47,825
And we were doing the chorus
and the dancers and everybody,
1376
01:19:47,908 --> 01:19:50,202
and it was fun.
It was work, but it was fun.
1377
01:19:50,286 --> 01:19:51,412
And another thing...
1378
01:19:52,413 --> 01:19:54,248
There are certain
people in this world
1379
01:19:54,331 --> 01:19:56,208
that were born
to be entertainers.
1380
01:19:56,292 --> 01:19:59,003
They just are.
They can't help themselves.
1381
01:19:59,086 --> 01:20:00,337
All right.
1382
01:20:15,853 --> 01:20:17,271
I mean,
they're just good.
1383
01:20:17,396 --> 01:20:21,275
And she's one of those,
that she just takes the audience
1384
01:20:21,358 --> 01:20:22,860
and runs with it.
1385
01:20:22,943 --> 01:20:24,194
Bette Midler's like that.
1386
01:20:24,278 --> 01:20:25,904
There's a lot of people
like that.
1387
01:20:25,988 --> 01:20:28,073
Cher kind of stands there
and says, "Well, here I am.
1388
01:20:28,157 --> 01:20:29,867
What do you think?"
And they love it.
1389
01:20:29,950 --> 01:20:33,954
But it's a whole different
attitude of performing.
1390
01:20:54,516 --> 01:20:57,978
Well, there are people that are
great fashion designers
1391
01:20:58,103 --> 01:21:01,482
that aren't always
good costume designers.
1392
01:21:01,607 --> 01:21:04,068
It isn't the same job.
1393
01:21:04,151 --> 01:21:06,320
You have to be theatrical
in your mind.
1394
01:21:06,403 --> 01:21:08,238
You have to be able
to read the script and say,
1395
01:21:08,322 --> 01:21:09,948
"Oh, it should be this way here,
1396
01:21:10,032 --> 01:21:11,992
and the color should be
this or that."
1397
01:21:12,076 --> 01:21:15,079
Or, "I want to explode here,"
1398
01:21:15,162 --> 01:21:18,457
or, "I want all of a sudden,
to do a color that the audience
1399
01:21:18,540 --> 01:21:20,834
just sits up and goes,
'Oh, my God.'"
1400
01:21:20,918 --> 01:21:22,336
You have to think
about all that.
1401
01:21:22,461 --> 01:21:25,464
You have to think about the mood
and the person's talent
1402
01:21:25,547 --> 01:21:27,049
that's wearing it.
1403
01:21:27,174 --> 01:21:29,385
Can they wear this?
Can they get away with it?
1404
01:21:29,510 --> 01:21:30,886
Are they--
1405
01:21:30,969 --> 01:21:33,430
Are they a personality
that can make this work?
1406
01:21:33,514 --> 01:21:38,060
Mr. President, on this
occasion of your birthday,
1407
01:21:38,185 --> 01:21:39,311
Marilyn Monroe.
1408
01:21:45,401 --> 01:21:48,946
Well, I was working for a
designer, a French designer,
1409
01:21:49,029 --> 01:21:50,364
called Jean Louis.
1410
01:21:51,031 --> 01:21:53,951
And as a kid, I always thought
that some lady
1411
01:21:54,034 --> 01:21:56,662
named Jean Louis
was doing these clothes.
1412
01:21:57,579 --> 01:21:59,498
And, you know, how did I know?
1413
01:21:59,581 --> 01:22:01,250
I looked at,
"Well, it's Jean Louis.
1414
01:22:01,333 --> 01:22:04,044
Who is this Jean Louis?
She does pretty good work."
1415
01:22:04,169 --> 01:22:06,130
I didn't know. I didn't know.
1416
01:22:06,213 --> 01:22:08,006
How did you get
the position then?
1417
01:22:08,090 --> 01:22:11,844
Well, I just-- I needed a job
and I was right out of school.
1418
01:22:11,927 --> 01:22:13,303
And that school was what?
1419
01:22:13,387 --> 01:22:16,390
Chouinard Art Institute,
which was a great art school.
1420
01:22:16,473 --> 01:22:18,559
And a lot
of their graduates were,
1421
01:22:18,642 --> 01:22:20,519
are still costume designers.
1422
01:22:20,602 --> 01:22:23,981
And the person that usually
did his sketches for him
1423
01:22:24,064 --> 01:22:26,984
was sick, you know,
and not available,
1424
01:22:27,067 --> 01:22:28,944
and he was trying
to find somebody.
1425
01:22:29,361 --> 01:22:32,990
And there was a fellow
at Western Costume who,
1426
01:22:33,073 --> 01:22:34,533
when somebody needed some help,
1427
01:22:34,616 --> 01:22:37,953
he would have names that people
would come to see him.
1428
01:22:38,495 --> 01:22:41,123
And he sent me over
and I got the job.
1429
01:22:41,248 --> 01:22:44,042
And it was funny
because I had a portfolio
1430
01:22:44,126 --> 01:22:46,128
with a lot of good sketches,
a lot of good stuff,
1431
01:22:46,253 --> 01:22:48,130
but there was one sketch,
1432
01:22:48,213 --> 01:22:50,883
and he looked at that
and said, "Oh, yeah, get him.
He'll be good."
1433
01:22:50,966 --> 01:22:52,593
And I said--
My portfolio looked mostly
1434
01:22:52,718 --> 01:22:54,136
like fashion illustration.
1435
01:22:54,261 --> 01:22:56,138
It didn't look
like movie clothes.
1436
01:22:56,263 --> 01:22:58,474
And so I said,
"Well, I've got to gear it more
1437
01:22:58,557 --> 01:23:01,268
to trying to get a job
in the movies."
1438
01:23:01,393 --> 01:23:04,146
So, what made the
Marilyn dress so famous.
1439
01:23:04,271 --> 01:23:07,191
Obviously, you have
Bob Mackie, Jean Louis,
1440
01:23:07,274 --> 01:23:09,026
Marilyn Monroe
wearing the dress.
1441
01:23:09,109 --> 01:23:11,612
She got fired from Fox
because she went to New York
1442
01:23:11,737 --> 01:23:14,406
to do that 90-second performance
1443
01:23:14,490 --> 01:23:16,033
in front of President Kennedy
1444
01:23:16,116 --> 01:23:17,451
for his early birthday
celebration
1445
01:23:17,576 --> 01:23:20,287
in front of the
Democratic National Convention
1446
01:23:20,412 --> 01:23:22,498
with 15,000 people in the room.
1447
01:23:22,581 --> 01:23:26,168
And she wanted to wear a dress
that no one else would wear,
1448
01:23:26,293 --> 01:23:27,628
that no one else could pull off.
1449
01:23:27,753 --> 01:23:30,464
And she walked on that stage,
when the lights went on,
1450
01:23:30,547 --> 01:23:34,259
the fabric of the dress
was like it was a nude color.
1451
01:23:34,343 --> 01:23:36,053
So it was to give--
When the lights hit
1452
01:23:36,136 --> 01:23:39,598
all those hand-stitched
crystals on the dress,
1453
01:23:39,681 --> 01:23:42,935
it gave the impression
that she was naked on stage.
1454
01:23:43,018 --> 01:23:48,482
♪ Happy birthday
Mr. President ♪
1455
01:23:49,441 --> 01:23:54,488
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪
1456
01:23:57,574 --> 01:24:00,327
And, like,
the crowd just went, "Wow."
1457
01:24:00,452 --> 01:24:02,579
That's the moment
that people are buying.
1458
01:24:02,663 --> 01:24:04,081
It's that moment in history.
1459
01:24:04,164 --> 01:24:07,501
It's the Marilyn
meets the presidential,
1460
01:24:07,584 --> 01:24:09,294
a time in history,
and Marilyn knew.
1461
01:24:09,378 --> 01:24:13,006
She risked everything: losing
her job, getting fired from Fox.
1462
01:24:13,131 --> 01:24:18,512
She knew that this would be
a life-changing event for her
1463
01:24:18,595 --> 01:24:20,138
and the world.
1464
01:24:20,222 --> 01:24:21,473
And she wowed.
1465
01:24:21,557 --> 01:24:24,643
And Bob Mackie, 21 years
of age, was the gentleman
1466
01:24:24,726 --> 01:24:28,522
at the beginning of that,
creating that amazing sketch.
1467
01:24:37,739 --> 01:24:40,409
Were you aware about
the Marilyn Monroe dress?
1468
01:24:40,492 --> 01:24:44,538
Going way back, when she sang
"Happy Birthday, Mr. President"?
1469
01:24:44,621 --> 01:24:46,540
I knew about
that dress.
1470
01:24:46,665 --> 01:24:48,041
Yeah, he was responsible
1471
01:24:48,125 --> 01:24:50,460
for sketching that originally,
for the--
1472
01:24:50,544 --> 01:24:52,671
Well, now that's something
I never knew.
1473
01:24:52,754 --> 01:24:54,423
- You never knew that?
- No.
1474
01:24:55,382 --> 01:24:57,009
- Oh, my God.
- No.
1475
01:24:57,092 --> 01:24:58,760
Well, he's not gonna
run around telling me.
1476
01:24:58,885 --> 01:25:01,305
Why not? Why?
1477
01:25:01,388 --> 01:25:02,639
"Guess what I did."
1478
01:25:02,723 --> 01:25:04,016
Well, that's just not how he is.
1479
01:25:04,099 --> 01:25:05,142
But isn't that funny?
1480
01:25:05,225 --> 01:25:06,560
- I didn't know that.
- Yeah.
1481
01:25:06,643 --> 01:25:09,605
"Happy Birthday, Mr. President."
Oh, my God.
1482
01:25:14,610 --> 01:25:18,280
Yes, '61. Absolutely,
just the beginning. Yeah.
1483
01:25:21,241 --> 01:25:23,118
Yeah, it really was.
1484
01:25:23,243 --> 01:25:30,375
It was '61, but it had started
changing about '57 or so,
1485
01:25:30,459 --> 01:25:35,088
from that real Happy Days
sort of '50s look.
1486
01:25:35,213 --> 01:25:38,216
Also, a little thing
called the Kennedys
1487
01:25:38,300 --> 01:25:40,093
came into the White House.
1488
01:25:40,218 --> 01:25:41,803
And there was
Jacqueline Kennedy,
1489
01:25:41,928 --> 01:25:44,598
who was considered the chicest
woman in the country.
1490
01:25:44,723 --> 01:25:49,561
And actually, John Kennedy
was a friend of Judy Garland's.
1491
01:25:49,645 --> 01:25:53,440
And on his birthday,
I was at her house on a Sunday,
1492
01:25:53,565 --> 01:25:54,733
and she picked up the phone.
1493
01:25:54,816 --> 01:25:56,526
She said,
"Oh, I have to call John."
1494
01:25:56,610 --> 01:25:59,571
And she picked up the phone
and sang happy birthday to him
1495
01:25:59,655 --> 01:26:01,323
because it was his birthday.
1496
01:26:01,448 --> 01:26:02,658
You were at the house?
1497
01:26:02,741 --> 01:26:04,910
I was at the house,
because on Sunday nights,
1498
01:26:05,577 --> 01:26:06,703
her show was on.
1499
01:26:07,954 --> 01:26:10,749
♪ And sang ♪
1500
01:26:14,753 --> 01:26:18,590
♪ San Francisco,
I'm going home again ♪
1501
01:26:22,719 --> 01:26:26,139
I got a job
on The Judy Garland Show
1502
01:26:26,223 --> 01:26:28,100
as an assistant
costume designer.
1503
01:26:28,183 --> 01:26:29,309
How did you get that job?
1504
01:26:29,685 --> 01:26:35,148
Well, I had a very good friend,
a "very" good friend,
1505
01:26:35,232 --> 01:26:36,650
who got the job.
1506
01:26:36,775 --> 01:26:40,362
But this was somebody that was
a good designer, Ray Aghayan,
1507
01:26:40,487 --> 01:26:41,738
but he didn't draw.
1508
01:26:41,822 --> 01:26:43,490
And so I was his assistant.
1509
01:26:43,573 --> 01:26:46,660
And I was in charge of,
usually, the chorus
1510
01:26:46,785 --> 01:26:48,870
and maybe guest stars
and things.
1511
01:26:48,995 --> 01:26:50,664
And he would do Judy.
1512
01:26:50,747 --> 01:26:52,708
But then I would work with him
with the sketches and stuff.
1513
01:26:52,791 --> 01:26:54,710
And she had
a very difficult little figure.
1514
01:26:54,835 --> 01:26:57,838
She was 4' 11."
Really short girl.
1515
01:27:10,016 --> 01:27:13,812
She was 42,
and she'd lived pretty hard.
1516
01:27:14,563 --> 01:27:16,398
She could get it all together.
1517
01:27:16,523 --> 01:27:20,694
♪ Days may be cloudy or sunny ♪
1518
01:27:20,819 --> 01:27:25,866
♪ We're in
Or we're out of the money ♪
1519
01:27:25,991 --> 01:27:28,535
And I would say,
"Oh, don't put that on her.
1520
01:27:28,618 --> 01:27:30,370
That's not good on her,"
you know,
1521
01:27:30,454 --> 01:27:32,164
because there was a lot to do.
1522
01:27:32,247 --> 01:27:36,168
You start on Monday and you
finish-- You shoot it on Friday,
1523
01:27:36,251 --> 01:27:37,836
and, boy, it better be good.
1524
01:27:37,919 --> 01:27:42,758
♪ The best is yet to come
Come the day you're mine ♪
1525
01:27:42,883 --> 01:27:45,218
Well, it was just--
It would be Ray and me
1526
01:27:45,343 --> 01:27:47,846
and a couple of people
from the show, maybe.
1527
01:27:47,929 --> 01:27:49,431
They would change, you know.
1528
01:27:49,514 --> 01:27:51,391
And sometimes
she'd just be by herself
1529
01:27:51,475 --> 01:27:53,018
and want somebody to watch with.
1530
01:27:53,518 --> 01:27:55,270
Oh, my God, really?
1531
01:27:55,353 --> 01:27:58,023
Well, yeah, you know, everybody
can't be everywhere every week.
1532
01:27:58,732 --> 01:28:04,446
And it was--
It was kind of sad in a way
1533
01:28:04,529 --> 01:28:09,493
because she didn't have a lot
of close friends that I knew of.
1534
01:28:10,410 --> 01:28:12,579
♪ We got each other ♪
1535
01:28:12,662 --> 01:28:14,748
♪ We're two lost sheep ♪
1536
01:28:14,831 --> 01:28:17,292
Hanging out
at Judy Garland's house,
1537
01:28:17,417 --> 01:28:18,835
- you're having a cocktail...
- Well, yeah.
1538
01:28:18,919 --> 01:28:20,462
...watching the show.
1539
01:28:20,545 --> 01:28:24,758
At 23, I was kind of like,
"Oh, good." You know.
1540
01:28:24,883 --> 01:28:28,512
But then I got very comfortable
because I was there quite often.
1541
01:28:30,722 --> 01:28:33,391
So Bob Mackie was--
We know the gowns,
1542
01:28:33,475 --> 01:28:35,435
we know the dresses,
we know the couturier,
1543
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:37,312
but he was much more than that.
1544
01:28:37,437 --> 01:28:40,899
And when Judy Garland
met Bob Mackie, violins played.
1545
01:28:40,982 --> 01:28:43,902
It just went into a love affair
like you'd never seen.
1546
01:28:43,985 --> 01:28:47,364
Judy was absolutely
mesmerized by Bob Mackie.
1547
01:28:47,447 --> 01:28:49,991
And so then Bob would
come in with the sketches.
1548
01:28:50,075 --> 01:28:52,786
Bob Mackie was not only a great
designer and a great artist,
1549
01:28:52,869 --> 01:28:55,247
but he was also the
world's greatest salesman.
1550
01:28:55,330 --> 01:28:58,625
He would walk in,
he could sell Judy on anything.
1551
01:29:04,005 --> 01:29:07,884
Well,
you didn't temper Judy.
You survived Judy.
1552
01:29:07,968 --> 01:29:11,805
Judy was always kind of testing
you a little bit, you know?
1553
01:29:11,888 --> 01:29:15,976
And Bob Mackie
would survive any test.
1554
01:29:21,815 --> 01:29:23,650
See, those were special people.
1555
01:29:23,775 --> 01:29:25,902
We don't have
those people anymore.
1556
01:29:25,986 --> 01:29:27,904
We have singers
and we have dancers
1557
01:29:27,988 --> 01:29:29,656
and we have actresses
and so forth.
1558
01:29:29,781 --> 01:29:31,491
But we don't have
the kind of event
1559
01:29:31,575 --> 01:29:34,995
that Cher was and that Judy was,
and Carol Burnett too.
1560
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:37,873
He made them feel special.
1561
01:29:37,956 --> 01:29:40,834
He made them confident.
He made them secure.
1562
01:29:40,917 --> 01:29:43,587
And so when they put on
a Bob Mackie gown,
1563
01:29:43,670 --> 01:29:45,630
they all of a sudden
felt they were the part.
1564
01:29:45,714 --> 01:29:48,300
So, what was the nature
of Bob and Ray's relationship?
1565
01:29:48,383 --> 01:29:49,885
Did you witness them
together at all?
1566
01:29:50,010 --> 01:29:55,432
Ray Aghayan and Bob Mackie
were like a symphony.
1567
01:29:55,515 --> 01:29:58,852
I mean, they never really
had to say that much.
1568
01:29:58,977 --> 01:30:00,353
They just understood each other.
1569
01:30:00,478 --> 01:30:03,857
Ray was very grand.
He came from Iran,
1570
01:30:03,940 --> 01:30:06,860
and his mother
was a big deal in Iran.
1571
01:30:06,943 --> 01:30:09,654
She was a couturier
and dressed all the royalty
1572
01:30:09,738 --> 01:30:11,031
and whatever at the time.
1573
01:30:11,156 --> 01:30:16,077
And then he was very continental
and foreign, and smoked.
1574
01:30:16,202 --> 01:30:19,623
You know, he had everything
but a fez on his head.
1575
01:30:22,083 --> 01:30:25,754
The first time
I ever met Ray,
he called me in New York
1576
01:30:25,879 --> 01:30:29,382
about 25 years ago,
and I answered the phone
1577
01:30:29,466 --> 01:30:34,095
and he said, "Joseph,
this is Raymond Aghayan.
1578
01:30:34,804 --> 01:30:37,766
I'm Bob's partner."
1579
01:30:40,143 --> 01:30:44,648
- Yes, that sounds like him.
- Well, but it made it clear
1580
01:30:44,731 --> 01:30:46,942
that it was
more than business partner.
1581
01:30:47,859 --> 01:30:51,571
Well, we--
Lulu and I had just--
1582
01:30:51,696 --> 01:30:54,741
We adored each other
and we were best friends,
1583
01:30:54,866 --> 01:30:59,955
but we split up as man and wife
because she was auditioning
1584
01:31:00,038 --> 01:31:01,957
and going off to New York
and doing stuff,
1585
01:31:02,082 --> 01:31:05,085
and I was still in school.
1586
01:31:05,210 --> 01:31:10,048
And I quit school and went out
for auditions for...
1587
01:31:10,757 --> 01:31:13,635
To be a costume
designer assistant.
1588
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:15,679
And Lulu-- Lulu remarried.
1589
01:31:15,762 --> 01:31:16,972
She had other husbands.
1590
01:31:17,097 --> 01:31:21,476
She had a husband,
who was an agent.
1591
01:31:21,601 --> 01:31:24,521
I didn't like him very much,
but that was all right.
1592
01:31:24,604 --> 01:31:25,939
I didn't have to like him.
1593
01:31:26,022 --> 01:31:27,065
She didn't stay married
to him for very long.
1594
01:31:27,190 --> 01:31:28,608
Robin didn't like him either.
1595
01:31:28,733 --> 01:31:30,068
So it was one of those.
1596
01:31:30,151 --> 01:31:33,196
And then one time,
the second husband,
1597
01:31:33,905 --> 01:31:37,033
he says,
"Well, what is this guy that--?
1598
01:31:37,117 --> 01:31:38,076
What does he do?"
1599
01:31:38,159 --> 01:31:39,953
"Well, he's a costume designer."
1600
01:31:40,036 --> 01:31:41,746
"Well, he must be gay."
1601
01:31:42,747 --> 01:31:44,541
That's the first thing you get.
1602
01:31:45,542 --> 01:31:46,793
- They just assume that.
- And I said--
1603
01:31:46,918 --> 01:31:49,546
- That's right.
- And I went to myself,
1604
01:31:49,629 --> 01:31:51,631
I said, "Well, yeah,
he's right. And--
1605
01:31:51,756 --> 01:31:53,008
Did Robin
have questions?
1606
01:31:53,133 --> 01:31:54,634
Because that was
an impressionable age.
1607
01:31:54,759 --> 01:31:55,927
Well, yes, it was.
1608
01:31:56,011 --> 01:31:59,097
And he-- I was very upset
when I decided
1609
01:31:59,180 --> 01:32:04,644
that I wasn't being completely
honest with her or with him,
1610
01:32:04,728 --> 01:32:06,855
and that I didn't know
what to do.
1611
01:32:06,980 --> 01:32:08,648
But I said, "I can't--"
1612
01:32:08,773 --> 01:32:11,860
I see these people in Hollywood
who have a wife and a boyfriend.
1613
01:32:11,985 --> 01:32:13,194
I said, "I can't--
1614
01:32:13,903 --> 01:32:18,616
I can't go out of town
on a job and do things,
1615
01:32:18,700 --> 01:32:21,036
and then come back home
and pretend not to."
1616
01:32:21,161 --> 01:32:24,622
That just seemed so wrong to me,
and the whole thing was wrong.
1617
01:32:24,956 --> 01:32:28,126
And it was one of the hardest
things I ever went through,
1618
01:32:28,209 --> 01:32:29,502
was telling her this.
1619
01:32:29,627 --> 01:32:31,546
If I hated
or couldn't stand her,
1620
01:32:31,671 --> 01:32:36,009
that would be different,
you know, a little bit,
I suppose, but...
1621
01:32:36,092 --> 01:32:38,011
- But I--
- You had guilt because you--
1622
01:32:38,094 --> 01:32:40,597
I had big guilt, and I cried.
1623
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:43,349
And I was,
"Oh, what am I going to do now?"
1624
01:32:44,267 --> 01:32:48,229
It was-- It's still hard
when I think about it.
1625
01:32:49,981 --> 01:32:52,734
Gonna do a new show,
The Mitzi Gaynor Show .
1626
01:32:52,859 --> 01:32:54,110
Clever title, huh?
1627
01:32:54,736 --> 01:32:56,988
So I called Ray Aghayan.
1628
01:32:57,072 --> 01:32:59,491
And he said, "Hello,
how are you, darling?"
1629
01:32:59,574 --> 01:33:00,700
I said, "I'm marvelous.
How are you?"
1630
01:33:00,825 --> 01:33:02,202
He said, "I'm okay."
1631
01:33:02,327 --> 01:33:03,870
I said, "I want you
to do my new show."
1632
01:33:03,953 --> 01:33:06,039
He says, "I can't."
I said, "But I love you."
1633
01:33:06,122 --> 01:33:09,834
And he said, "I love you too,
darling, but I'm up to my ass
in Judy Garland."
1634
01:33:10,710 --> 01:33:11,878
She was doing a show.
1635
01:33:12,212 --> 01:33:14,714
So he says,
"But you know that that name,
1636
01:33:14,798 --> 01:33:16,132
Bob Mackie."
1637
01:33:16,216 --> 01:33:18,009
And he said, "Bob Mackie
is my best friend in the world,
1638
01:33:18,093 --> 01:33:20,970
and he's working at Paramount
sketching for Edith Head."
1639
01:33:21,054 --> 01:33:23,098
So I said, "Okay, I'll see him."
1640
01:33:24,015 --> 01:33:25,183
There's a knock at the door.
1641
01:33:25,266 --> 01:33:27,519
A little face says,
"Ms. Gaynor?"
1642
01:33:27,602 --> 01:33:30,063
I said, "Yes?"
I've got this little boy,
1643
01:33:30,146 --> 01:33:32,190
he's wanting me
to sign his autograph.
1644
01:33:33,775 --> 01:33:35,068
I said, "Yes, come in."
1645
01:33:35,151 --> 01:33:36,986
He said,
"My name is Bob Mackie."
1646
01:33:37,070 --> 01:33:40,281
I said, "For god's sake, your
voice hasn't even changed yet."
1647
01:33:41,116 --> 01:33:44,285
Did you get
the impression this boyish man
1648
01:33:44,369 --> 01:33:49,874
who you met originally had
the endurance and the ability
1649
01:33:49,958 --> 01:33:51,126
to pull this off?
1650
01:33:51,251 --> 01:33:56,089
What happened was,
we had seen Mitzi Gaynor.
1651
01:34:05,932 --> 01:34:09,602
So we thought, "Can we do--?"
My gosh, and it was Bob Mackie.
1652
01:34:09,686 --> 01:34:11,604
Bob Mackie, Bob Mackie. Wow.
1653
01:34:11,688 --> 01:34:16,234
And the versatility
was so impressive.
1654
01:34:16,317 --> 01:34:19,279
So we got in touch
with him, bing-bong,
1655
01:34:19,404 --> 01:34:23,449
and I opened the door,
and there was this child.
1656
01:34:26,953 --> 01:34:29,622
Beautiful blond Adonis.
1657
01:34:29,706 --> 01:34:32,292
He looked like
he was a newspaper boy.
1658
01:34:32,375 --> 01:34:36,629
Like, you know-- He looked like
he was 12. And I said, "Yes?"
1659
01:34:36,754 --> 01:34:38,798
He said, "Hi, I'm Bob Mackie."
1660
01:34:38,882 --> 01:34:41,301
And he came in
and we talked and everything,
1661
01:34:41,384 --> 01:34:42,886
and he was so charming.
1662
01:34:42,969 --> 01:34:45,013
- And I never had any doubt.
- Really?
1663
01:34:45,138 --> 01:34:47,265
And we hired him
right on the spot.
1664
01:34:47,348 --> 01:34:52,103
And I think he was
26 or 27 at the time,
1665
01:34:52,187 --> 01:34:54,147
but he looked like
he was about 18.
1666
01:34:54,230 --> 01:34:56,065
- Yeah.
- He still does.
1667
01:35:01,738 --> 01:35:04,407
A lot of people think
he just did what I wore,
1668
01:35:05,116 --> 01:35:06,951
but he designed for everybody.
1669
01:35:07,035 --> 01:35:10,622
Every bit of costuming
that you saw on our show
1670
01:35:10,705 --> 01:35:14,083
that the dancers,
the singers, the guest stars,
1671
01:35:14,167 --> 01:35:17,879
the rep company,
we all were dressed by Bob.
1672
01:35:18,004 --> 01:35:19,756
So you do the math.
1673
01:35:19,839 --> 01:35:23,009
We did 276 shows,
something like that.
1674
01:35:23,134 --> 01:35:29,057
So in 11 years, he designed
17,000 costumes.
1675
01:35:29,182 --> 01:35:31,684
You, sir, are no gentleman.
1676
01:35:31,768 --> 01:35:33,686
And you, Ms. O'Hara,
are no lady.
1677
01:35:34,938 --> 01:35:36,356
Starlett, I love you.
1678
01:35:36,481 --> 01:35:39,192
You and I are cut out of
the same rotten, dirty cloth.
1679
01:35:39,317 --> 01:35:42,654
The Gone With the Wind ,
that's what everybody thinks of.
1680
01:35:42,737 --> 01:35:45,031
That will go in the time capsule
1681
01:35:45,156 --> 01:35:47,408
as one of
the longest laughs ever.
1682
01:35:47,533 --> 01:35:49,202
And that was Bob's idea.
1683
01:35:49,285 --> 01:35:52,413
Look, Ms. Starlett, isn't that
Captain Butler's carriage now?
1684
01:35:52,538 --> 01:35:55,041
Oh, Lord, what am I going to do?
1685
01:35:55,166 --> 01:35:56,793
Well, I've got an idea.
1686
01:35:56,876 --> 01:35:59,128
When he comes in, why don't you
hide behind the drapes?
1687
01:36:02,507 --> 01:36:04,175
Sissy, help me take these down.
1688
01:36:04,259 --> 01:36:05,927
Well, what are you
doing that for?
1689
01:36:06,052 --> 01:36:07,679
Never you mind.
1690
01:36:07,762 --> 01:36:09,222
Now, listen, when he gets here,
you just keep him busy.
1691
01:36:09,305 --> 01:36:10,348
- You understand?
- Yes ma'am.
1692
01:36:10,431 --> 01:36:13,351
Because I got me
a dress to make.
1693
01:36:13,434 --> 01:36:14,894
Yes, ma'am.
1694
01:36:15,019 --> 01:36:16,354
And the sketch itself
is very funny.
1695
01:36:16,437 --> 01:36:18,064
I mean, all the way through,
it was funny.
1696
01:36:18,189 --> 01:36:21,985
And so when it came
to her putting the curtains
1697
01:36:22,068 --> 01:36:24,821
into a dress, making
the curtains into a dress,
1698
01:36:25,488 --> 01:36:29,075
the writers wrote that I would
just come down the stairs
1699
01:36:29,200 --> 01:36:32,245
with them hanging,
just like that.
1700
01:36:32,328 --> 01:36:36,249
And Bob thought,
"This sketch is very funny,
1701
01:36:36,332 --> 01:36:38,876
so we gotta--
That's not that funny."
1702
01:36:39,335 --> 01:36:42,380
And then he thought, he said,
"Well, maybe he'll
1703
01:36:42,463 --> 01:36:43,756
redo the real dress."
1704
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:45,466
No, everybody's seen that.
1705
01:36:46,050 --> 01:36:48,928
And then he came up
with the curtain-rod idea.
1706
01:36:49,012 --> 01:36:55,268
And I remember I went into
costume fitting that week,
1707
01:36:55,393 --> 01:36:57,854
and he said, "I have an idea
for the curtain dress."
1708
01:36:57,937 --> 01:37:01,024
And I went into the room
and there it was, you know.
1709
01:37:02,442 --> 01:37:05,194
I fell on the floor,
I was laughing so hard.
1710
01:37:05,278 --> 01:37:08,239
I said, "This is going to be
1711
01:37:08,323 --> 01:37:12,285
one of the greatest sight gags
in the history of television."
1712
01:37:12,368 --> 01:37:13,786
You knew that?
1713
01:37:13,870 --> 01:37:17,248
I knew it right from the get-go.
I mean, yeah.
1714
01:37:29,177 --> 01:37:32,805
And it was hard for me,
walking down the stairs,
1715
01:37:32,930 --> 01:37:34,349
to keep a straight face--
1716
01:37:34,474 --> 01:37:36,351
And I'm looking at Harvey, and
he's trying to keep it together.
1717
01:37:36,434 --> 01:37:40,188
And I had to bite the inside
of my cheek because--
1718
01:37:40,313 --> 01:37:43,608
To keep myself from breaking up
with the reaction.
1719
01:37:44,150 --> 01:37:47,028
And I went like this.
1720
01:37:48,154 --> 01:37:51,074
What--? What brings you to Tara?
1721
01:37:52,867 --> 01:37:54,160
You, you vixen, you.
1722
01:37:54,285 --> 01:37:55,787
Starlett, I love you.
1723
01:37:55,870 --> 01:37:58,122
That-- That gown is gorgeous.
1724
01:37:59,457 --> 01:38:01,000
Thank you,
1725
01:38:01,084 --> 01:38:02,794
I saw it in the window
and I just couldn't resist it.
1726
01:38:09,342 --> 01:38:12,178
- How did it feel when it was on?
- It was heavy.
1727
01:38:12,261 --> 01:38:13,304
It was heavy.
1728
01:38:13,388 --> 01:38:15,556
But anything for a laugh.
1729
01:38:16,015 --> 01:38:17,475
I'll say.
1730
01:38:17,558 --> 01:38:19,811
For so many years, people are
still laughing about that dress.
1731
01:38:19,894 --> 01:38:22,271
And the original one
is in the Smithsonian.
1732
01:38:22,355 --> 01:38:26,025
Bob would say "They're gonna
put that on my tombstone."
1733
01:38:26,442 --> 01:38:29,028
You know, that,
and maybe Cher's Mohawk.
1734
01:38:29,153 --> 01:38:31,823
Actually, the man that
designed Gone With the Wind
1735
01:38:31,906 --> 01:38:33,533
did a drawing for me
1736
01:38:34,158 --> 01:38:37,412
when I did the curtain-rod
dress on Carol Burnett .
1737
01:38:37,537 --> 01:38:43,292
And he sent me a little drawing
of me racing with Edith Head
1738
01:38:44,085 --> 01:38:45,211
for the finish line.
1739
01:38:56,139 --> 01:38:59,016
But, you know, he had
a different relationship
with all of us.
1740
01:38:59,100 --> 01:39:03,396
I think mine is the deepest,
goes the deepest.
1741
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:05,064
And as the time went by
1742
01:39:05,189 --> 01:39:08,359
and we spent so much time
together over all those years,
1743
01:39:08,443 --> 01:39:09,861
and he would have to--
1744
01:39:09,986 --> 01:39:12,572
He would have to think up
one thing after another.
1745
01:39:28,588 --> 01:39:31,549
And I can
show you outfits, and you go,
1746
01:39:31,632 --> 01:39:35,595
how did he go from that
to this and then to this?
1747
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:39,015
And how did he just keep on
going for all those years?
1748
01:39:39,098 --> 01:39:41,100
It's, what, 50-something years.
1749
01:39:42,435 --> 01:39:46,397
I didn't know enough
to know what he would become,
1750
01:39:46,481 --> 01:39:49,275
but I knew enough
to know who he was.
1751
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:50,651
So looking back,
did you ever feel
1752
01:39:50,776 --> 01:39:52,153
the pressure of expectation
1753
01:39:52,278 --> 01:39:54,447
of constantly reinventing
yourself with Bob
1754
01:39:54,530 --> 01:39:56,282
- over the years?
- No.
1755
01:39:56,407 --> 01:39:58,493
I never felt pressure
to do anything.
1756
01:39:59,243 --> 01:40:01,621
You have to know me.
1757
01:40:02,455 --> 01:40:05,041
And you?
How do you feel about fame?
1758
01:40:06,501 --> 01:40:10,671
It's the work that counts,
you know, if you do good work.
1759
01:40:10,796 --> 01:40:12,256
- It'll come.
- Yeah, well--
1760
01:40:12,340 --> 01:40:13,674
Kind of like a byproduct.
1761
01:40:13,799 --> 01:40:16,302
Well, yeah, but sometimes,
you do really good work
1762
01:40:16,385 --> 01:40:19,222
and nobody pays
any attention to it because,
1763
01:40:19,305 --> 01:40:21,307
for whatever reason, who knows?
1764
01:40:21,724 --> 01:40:23,309
And then other times, they do.
1765
01:40:24,227 --> 01:40:28,564
But it's important to do good
work and to be serious about it.
1766
01:40:28,648 --> 01:40:30,399
A lot of people think
being a costume designer
1767
01:40:30,483 --> 01:40:33,486
is kind of flamboyant and silly
and whatever, whatever.
1768
01:40:33,569 --> 01:40:37,281
You know, and it's not serious.
1769
01:40:38,241 --> 01:40:41,244
It's very serious
if you dress somebody up
1770
01:40:41,327 --> 01:40:43,287
and they go out there
and nothing works,
1771
01:40:43,371 --> 01:40:45,039
and it doesn't help them.
1772
01:40:45,498 --> 01:40:46,499
That's serious to you?
1773
01:40:46,582 --> 01:40:48,251
Yeah, and, well, it is serious.
1774
01:40:48,334 --> 01:40:51,712
And if you're doing comedy
and you don't get any laughs,
1775
01:40:52,463 --> 01:40:54,507
forget it.
1776
01:40:54,632 --> 01:40:56,342
It's-- It's over.
1777
01:41:05,142 --> 01:41:07,687
Don't expect
any screams for me, kids.
1778
01:41:13,067 --> 01:41:14,235
- Keep going.
- Keep going.
1779
01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:15,695
- Keep going.
- Bob?
1780
01:41:15,778 --> 01:41:17,238
- Let's go.
- Bob.
1781
01:41:19,323 --> 01:41:21,367
He seems a little nervous.
1782
01:41:26,122 --> 01:41:27,373
Crazy.
1783
01:42:14,670 --> 01:42:16,756
It was fun to see Bob
in his element,
1784
01:42:16,881 --> 01:42:19,133
because when we visit,
it's always at his house.
1785
01:42:19,258 --> 01:42:22,094
So we go to things,
or here at the house.
1786
01:42:22,219 --> 01:42:24,764
I did want to kill Joe, though,
because I asked him
1787
01:42:24,889 --> 01:42:26,432
what I should wear.
1788
01:42:26,557 --> 01:42:29,602
And he said, "Just wear--
Just wear what you always wear.
1789
01:42:29,727 --> 01:42:31,103
You're fine, just whatever."
1790
01:42:31,187 --> 01:42:32,605
And when the guy behind me
found out
1791
01:42:32,688 --> 01:42:34,106
I was Bob Mackie's
granddaughter,
1792
01:42:34,190 --> 01:42:35,441
he said to me,
"Who are you wearing?"
1793
01:42:35,566 --> 01:42:37,735
And I'm like,
"Oh, don't ask me that
1794
01:42:37,818 --> 01:42:40,071
because it was a Target dress."
1795
01:42:40,154 --> 01:42:41,572
Well, Target's good.
1796
01:42:41,656 --> 01:42:44,533
I know, but the guy thought
she should have been there
1797
01:42:44,617 --> 01:42:46,702
- in some designer--
- No, but, I mean, you're--
1798
01:42:46,786 --> 01:42:48,913
- It was funny.
- But it was fun.
1799
01:42:49,497 --> 01:42:51,248
Yeah, we had a great time.
1800
01:42:51,332 --> 01:42:53,834
Right now, this is special.
1801
01:42:53,918 --> 01:42:56,712
This artist is a
Grammy-winning singer,
1802
01:42:56,796 --> 01:43:01,509
an Oscar-winning actress,
an Emmy-winning TV star,
1803
01:43:01,634 --> 01:43:03,552
and a fashion icon.
1804
01:43:03,636 --> 01:43:07,807
She's one of the biggest-selling
singers of all time.
1805
01:43:07,890 --> 01:43:12,853
America, make some noise
for Cher.
1806
01:43:22,863 --> 01:43:24,365
♪ My, my ♪
1807
01:43:24,448 --> 01:43:29,370
♪ At Waterloo
Napoleon did surrender ♪
1808
01:43:29,495 --> 01:43:30,705
♪ Oh, yeah ♪
1809
01:43:31,288 --> 01:43:36,544
♪ And I have met my destiny
In quite a similar way ♪
1810
01:43:37,294 --> 01:43:40,297
♪ The history book
On the shelf ♪
1811
01:43:40,923 --> 01:43:45,678
♪ Is always repeating itself ♪
1812
01:43:45,761 --> 01:43:47,680
♪ Waterloo ♪
1813
01:43:55,438 --> 01:43:58,816
♪ If I could turn back time ♪
1814
01:43:59,775 --> 01:44:03,279
♪ If I could find a way ♪
1815
01:44:04,530 --> 01:44:08,868
♪ I'd take back those words
That hurt you ♪
1816
01:44:08,951 --> 01:44:11,412
You knew
I wasn't gonna let
this film end without talking
1817
01:44:11,537 --> 01:44:13,456
about that moment on the ship.
1818
01:44:14,665 --> 01:44:17,835
I had an idea,
and it went too far.
1819
01:44:17,918 --> 01:44:18,836
But...
1820
01:44:19,545 --> 01:44:21,547
I don't know.
It worked for the song.
1821
01:44:21,630 --> 01:44:24,800
It was a little bit--
It was a little bit too much.
1822
01:44:24,884 --> 01:44:29,388
♪ Words are like weapons
They wound sometimes ♪
1823
01:44:29,513 --> 01:44:30,848
That's the one he said,
1824
01:44:30,931 --> 01:44:33,350
"Don't ever tell anybody
that I made this for you."
1825
01:44:33,726 --> 01:44:35,728
And he's right. It was terrible.
1826
01:44:35,853 --> 01:44:39,190
Well, with this-- On the big
ship with the sailors,
1827
01:44:39,273 --> 01:44:40,733
she got nervous about that one.
1828
01:44:40,816 --> 01:44:42,777
That was really a vulgar,
horrible outfit.
1829
01:44:42,902 --> 01:44:45,404
♪ If I could turn back time ♪
1830
01:44:46,864 --> 01:44:49,700
♪ If I could find a way ♪
1831
01:44:51,535 --> 01:44:52,787
♪ I'd take back all... ♪
1832
01:44:52,870 --> 01:44:54,872
When I was on the ship
with the sailors, they--
1833
01:44:54,955 --> 01:44:57,333
I have to tell you,
they kept calling me ma'am,
1834
01:44:57,416 --> 01:44:59,418
so I didn't feel so bad.
1835
01:44:59,835 --> 01:45:02,922
Bob
denied that he did it
for many years because...
1836
01:45:03,756 --> 01:45:06,300
Well, let him tell you
about that-- Why that's--
1837
01:45:06,425 --> 01:45:07,718
Well, what's your take?
1838
01:45:07,802 --> 01:45:09,512
- You didn't like it?
- It's like a seat belt.
1839
01:45:09,595 --> 01:45:12,389
It's like two strips of a
seat belt and a leather jacket.
1840
01:45:12,473 --> 01:45:16,268
And it was a boat
with thousands of sailors.
1841
01:45:16,352 --> 01:45:17,728
Come on.
1842
01:45:17,812 --> 01:45:20,689
♪ My world was shattered
I was torn apart ♪
1843
01:45:21,440 --> 01:45:24,985
♪ Like someone took a knife
And drove it deep in my heart ♪
1844
01:45:25,110 --> 01:45:27,571
Joe described that
as a couple of seat belts.
1845
01:45:29,448 --> 01:45:32,451
There were all kinds
of descriptions for that one.
1846
01:45:32,535 --> 01:45:34,787
♪ Darling, then and there ♪
1847
01:45:36,997 --> 01:45:40,793
♪ Too strong to tell you
I was sorry ♪
1848
01:45:41,502 --> 01:45:43,546
♪ Too proud to tell you
I was wrong ♪
1849
01:45:43,629 --> 01:45:45,881
♪ I know that I was blind ♪
1850
01:45:45,965 --> 01:45:49,885
♪ And darling
If I could turn back time ♪
1851
01:45:51,428 --> 01:45:54,473
♪ If I could find a way ♪